This is the slight problem I have with this banning. Here Huey Freeman pretty much says he is going to limit himself to the Pit from here on out so he can express himself without falling afoul of the no personal insults rule. So you’re banning a poster for only posting in the Pit after he explicitly declared he would limit himself to the Pit to try and stay out of trouble. Unless a moderator warned him that “hey by doing that you’re risking being banned for being a one note agitator”, I think it’s kinda a cheap shot to boot him for it.
I think Huey Freeman’s arguments are mostly poor, his insults nasty and his participation one note. But if you aren’t banning him for being nasty, monomaniacal or for having crappy arguments, then you probably shouldn’t ban him. If management think he actually IS a troll, that’s a fine reason to ban him as well. But if the only criterion being used is that he only posts in the Pit, then see above. To much of a technicality IMHO.
Since he is banned, it is inappropriate to share my opinion of Huey, but it was not a very positive one. That said, I’m unhappy he was banned. He stayed in the pit, and posted in a pit-like manner, albeit in a relentless and compulsive way. We need to be very careful in how we treat unpopular posters - especially the ones who manage to antagonize almost the entire board.
I think a clear part of trolling is an element of insincerity, which was absent here, or at least not provably present. Assholery == trolling.
I’m glad there was hesitation and deliberation before the decision, an it isn’t like I can’t see why he was banned. I just wish he hadn’t been.
…when Huey speaks I hear the same voice as many of the other black voices that I’ve started to listen to over the last few years. I don’t blame you for being skeptical. But I didn’t see anything he said that lead me to believe he was trolling.
I’ve not only seen it, I have to live with it.
Three years ago I got so sick that I could barely walk out of the house. When I managed to make it to my car I had to sit there for ten minutes to recover before I could drive off. I had to restructure my entire business in order to accommodate my illness.
Yep.
I’ve spent the last three days in the house because I can’t bring myself to do anything. I’m writing this in tears right now. I’ve never shared this with anyone before. Every day’s a constant battle with my own brain. Was that the answer you wanted to hear?
I’m not happy with how Huey treated you. I was disgusted by the way he treated you. But it wasn’t against the rules. I’d be happy for the rules to change. But to ban him for trolling is disingenuous.
Thank you for giving asahi a mercy suspension. I hope he either straightens up and flies right or has the wisdom and dignity to take an extended break from the board.
As for Huey, he was a problem poster. But banning him without issuing warnings or even mod notes strikes me as a mite unfair. Especially since I thought there was substance to his complaints. Was his banning completely unreasonable? I don’t thinks so: I’ve noted in the other thread that pit specialists are subject to bannings. But I would have given the guy further rope. To be fair, there are a lot of vocal posters who objected vehemently to this slower approach for years. So I can understand the current mods’ perspective.
The good news is that Huey stuck around long enough to make his point. I wasn’t convinced that 6 more months of it would have been particularly illuminating, but who knows?
Well, as far as I can recall, my only real interaction with this poster was them quoting myself responding someone else in the thread and calling my otherwise impeccable reasoning (in this case) was somehow “white” because I reserved claims of racism as a motivation in a crime until the suspected perpetrators were at least identified.
I really don’t know of a way to interpret that other than trolling, as I wasn’t responding to them, and assailing my logic as “white” isn’t really something that makes any sense to defend against, as they didn’t qualify what what was “white” about it. It was just stupid name calling, and not worth responding to.
In short: I’d get worked up about the ambiguity of this banning, but they sure walked and talked like a troll - they tried to reply in the most inflammatory way, but some people do that in their genuine interactions in real life. They’re not trolls, they’re really that angry and reflexive. If Huey wasn’t a troll, I certainly can’t blame the mods for not being able to distinguish between the behaviors any better than I could.
If they never try to sock their way back - I’ll consider them genuine, at least.
I found Huey’s attack on Guinastasia to be by far the vilest thing I’ve seen on the SDMB, including the Pit. But I’m not keen on this apparent rule, which I had no inkling of until now, that it’s not kosher to only post in the Pit. :dubious:
Used to be, back when Lynn was in charge of the Pit, that confining the vast majority of one’s posts to the Pit did result in close scrutiny of one’s posts.
Hmmm. If we quoted those rules and went back through some Pit posts it would be interesting to see how to the letter those rules were followed by people who’ve been here for decades.
Completely missed the edit window, but this is the post I referenced above. I don’t think anyone cares in particular, but it seemed incomplete without linking to it.
ETA: No, I didn’t report it. I’m probably part of the problem. In my defense, I never claimed otherwise.
One of the reasons Huey was allowed to go on as long as he did was specifically because I didn’t want to moderate people for “meanness.” The issue isn’t that he was often a dick when he posted here, the issue is that he only posted here to be a dick. I always moderated the language rule with a light touch because I didn’t want otherwise valuable posters to get a bunch of warnings over a poorly considered rule. If Huey had shown any interest at all in the board beyond screaming at the people who post here, I would have argued against a ban. Sure, he was getting mobbed in the Pit, but being mobbed in the Pit wasn’t stopping him from talking about tv shows in CS, or cat pics in MPSIMS, or just generally engaging with the board in any capacity other than shouting “white supremacist” over and over again.
I get what you were saying about him having been banned over an “esoteric” rule, but this wasn’t a case of us going hunting for an excuse to ban him. This was a case of a fundamentally toxic personality that was detracting from the experience of the board, and us having a precedent already in place for dealing with that kind of toxicity, without having to write a bunch of new rules for the Pit just to deal with this one poster.
Huey Freeman brought (at least) one thing to this board that was of value, at least to me, and that was his anger. (I apologize in advance, this is going to sound awful in ways I don’t know yet.) I “got” some of his posts by trying to imagine what it would be like to be living black in this country where so many people are so completely clueless about what that is like (not least of all me). I do volunteer work with some black people (I’m an old privileged white guy) and I feel the barriers, they know I don’t have a clue, and they’re playing it safe with me. Our volunteer team leader was a young white woman, the progressivest of the progressives, she wore a Black Lives Matter button everywhere she went, and I don’t think she got any closer to them than I did (she resigned a bit ago to do something else, which is why this part is in the past tense).
I have experience maybe a couple of times in my life mindless hatred from a couple of individuals because I’m gay. I have tried to imagine what it would be like if that were happening to me all day every day, if I had to be in fear of my life or my job or my liberty for no reason and for something I couldn’t hide (like I can mostly hide my sexual orientation). I didn’t get very far with that imagining, really, but it helped me towards a small degree of understanding that anger which stood out as Huey Freeman’s strongest feature.
So I regret that his anger here has now been stifled of future input. I think the reasoning for that decision is bogus and convenient. I’m sure Huey would be no more merciful to me than he was to any other white person, if I had ever come to his notice. I don’t want to continue to be a clueless white person, and if it takes a few slaps to the face or kicks to the backside to move me in a better direction, I think I can take it. It’s certainly easier to take here than in person, for I am pretty timid.
I guess that’s all I have to say. I think the membership of this board is and will be poorer in growth and in understanding without Huey Freeman.
I’m not aware of an appeals process or similar, and I appreciate this decision will not have been lightly or easily, but if there’s any chance of reconsideration I think it would be a good idea.
Well, like I said to octopus, the issue isn’t that he was too fighty in Pit threads, the issue is that he was only interested in fighting in the Pit. He didn’t participate in any other way for a while now. Back when he started the linked thread, last July, this behavior was not as apparent, and he was participating in other fora here outside of the Pit. My observation about his posting habits was dated from October, several months after he’d started that thread, and I think his comments in that thread during that time frame bear out my observation.
Also, FTR, I found his “apology” to Guinastasia, as well as his explanation for his “misunderstanding,” to be completely unconvincing. That’s incidental to this discussion, as the decision to ban had already been made when he posted that, but a guy with Huey talent with rhetoric, who had never heard of the “have you stopped beating your wife” rhetorical trick? Please.
No, I don’t think that it does. Certainly not in the eyes of anyone on the moderation staff, and I can’t recall ever seeing this idea put forward by any significant mass of posters.
All of those posters are able to participate in the board in ways that don’t exclusively involve picking fights with everyone they interact with.
Except it’s not just meanness. Meanness is fine. Going psychoticaly over the top, is not. It’s not that hard to tell the difference. On the Giraffe Board, someone fought with Dio tooth and nail. Insults were exchanged both directions. Then the other person referenced Dio‘s mom having recently died in a house fire and mocked it. Do you see a difference between that and calling him a poopie-head? If so, you can distinguish between mean and psychotic. I have no doubt that 95% of the people here could easily tell the difference. And Hubert was psychotic
One of the underlying principles inherent in “don’t be a jerk“ is the idea that people are more or less normally socialized. If Hubert was so poorly educated and socialized that he didn’t understand basic rhetorical concepts like “have you stopped beating your wife yet?“ or knowing that it’s wrong to claim victims status but call female board members whores, then he didn’t born here. This is not the Romper Room message board. It’s ostensibly for grown-ups.
Anybody who can’t figure out, at least roughly, where the broad fuzzy lines are drawn is someone who failed kindergarten and should not be here until they learn to play well with others.