Although Freckafree’s husband does deserve a kick in the pants for his lack of care around the house, let’s not get the pitchforks out regarding him bludging.
Just because you are not working does not equate to having no income stream. We just don’t know that aspect.
That aside, he must get terribly bored doing nothing.
You have a problem there. (But he’s certainly got a problem, too - unemployed for 10 years by choice? What’s that about? I think he has a bat in his belfry, and I’m not surprised he doesn’t mind a filthy house.)
I would take some time to rip through the house getting rid of all clutter and then calling a cleaning service to come in on a regular basis. In dealing with peoples’ hobbies and clutter around here, I have had some success in putting everything in a big cardboard box in the basement, if stuff was sitting around messing up the place. (Even my own stuff! If I found I wasn’t using vases, dishes, pots and pans, books, flower arrangements after a length of time, out it went.)
Sorry for nattering on but I feel bad for you. But there’s something amiss with your spouse, IMO.
You know how the question “How are you today?” doesn’t really mean “explain to me how you feel” it means “I acknowledge you socially, acknowledge me back”? You know how some people don’t understand social things like that and have to learn them explicitly?
“Cleaning the house” is also a social thing that has to be learned. For instance, seeing a pile of dirty laundry on the kitchen table is yuckier than seeing crumb-filled dishes from breakfast. A sopping-wet bathmat is more excusable than a dirty toilet and hidden toilet paper. Everyone knows these things-- except that some people don’t! But when you aren’t the kind of person who can look at a room and decide immediately what needs cleaning most and first, there can be a paralyzing number of things crying for your attention and you don’t know what to do.
Also, if you clean like this, more than likely your infrequent efforts to clean are greeted with “but why didn’t you clean this dirtiest thing first?” or even total disregard of your efforts. Over time, you learn that there’s nothing you can do to make a difference without exerting an enormous amount of effort, and if you can’t cope with the effort, you learn to live with things as they are.
It does help to have a non-affected person stand by and assist, especially if they can explain their methods, as long as they can do it without making either of you miserable. My husband and his best friend sat me down and made a house list, one page per room, that went into enough detail of what to do that I could handle doing my share of the cleaning without any frustration or crying.
Hey, if you’re looking for a freeloader, ditch the husband and take care of me instead. While I can’t promise you eternal love, I can promise that I will be at least 50% cleaner, and after I quit my job I’ll take up an aggressive World of Warcraft habit that will not extend to your dining room table.
I should just add that my dad was the exact same way (except he worked, and so did my mom) and after 24 years, my mom got sick of it and they separated. It was hard on everyone, especially my dad. They were apart for about a year and are now back together and somewhat happy, though dad still doesn’t do a ton around the house. It’s really surprising how something so simple as house cleaning can drive such a huge wedge into a family.
I’m recently married but have been with my husband for nine years. Using my parent’s as an example, I NEVER let him get away with not pitching in. I don’t mind doing most of the housework, but if I don’t want to do it all, I tell him he’s helping me. “You do the kitchen, I’ll do the livingroom and bathroom. Let’s go hard and get it done in an hour.” He’s never said no. But then, I suppose I’ve practically trained him on it.
Have a calm, honest, loving conversation about the problem. No nagging, no Bitching, no name calling. Just express your frustration and ask for his input on how to fix the solution. Do NOT blame him, or ask what he does all day. This has go on for 10 years, and you don’t have the right to complain about it now. That time is LONG gone and you have given tacit approval and support to his lifestyle. Instead, focus on the issue: The house is messy, and we need to do a better job of keeping it clean. How can we do this? THIS is where you can mention that since you work, you simply don’t have the time to do all the housework. By making him understand that you have a limited amount of time that you CHOOSE to spend on it, he can help create solutions.
He needs an office/desk/workstation. His paperwork needs to stay in that area. This is easier than it may sound. If you find it elsewhere, plop it back on the desk. After a while, (2-3 months) if he doesn’t get it, start tossing it out when you find it out of place for a fair amount of time. Eventually he will learn that his work needs to live in that area, or return to it when he is finished with it elsewhere. We do this at my household for other reasons. If something requires my attention, Nashiitashii can either hand it to me directly, or place it on my desk where I will notice it and attend to it. Otherwise I simply don’t notice things tacked to the fridge, in her file, on the counter, etc… This really works.
Consider hiring a cleaning service to come in twice a month for the big stuff like dusting, sweeping up, bathrooms, and the like. It isn’t that much and it will eliminate a lot of headaches.
Change your dining habits. Dishes are washed and/or placed in the washer directly after use. BOTH of you do this TOGETHER. Some posters won’t like this because of your division of labor, but dining is a communal thing. Everyone ate, everyone cleans up. Purchase the sort of detergent that doesn’t require prewashing so he can dump his lunch stuff in the washer. If this can’t be managed for some reason, get paper plates and resolve to use them for breakfast, snacks and lunch.
freckafree, has he always been like this? Before you got married, what did his living conditions look like? I’m trying to figure out if his disregard for cleaning is something that has recently manifested or if it’s been something he has always had. This combined with his unemployment sounds like symptoms of depression to me.
I sympathize with your plight. I do agree that hiring a cleaning person would be a smart move, at least to get the place to a hospitable enough state that you can have company over. But unless you have the money to spend on this service without causing strain, I don’t think you should plan on using this as a long-term solution. If you can’t get your husband to do anything, at least start training your son to help. And when I say “help”, I mean, “you have to do this or there will be consequences”.
I would sit down with your husband and tell him that you don’t think he is contributing enough the household, and you are worried about his mental health because he doesn’t seem to care about that. He needs to know that continuing his behavior will lead to consequences because you can’t handle it anymore. If he’s depressed, he needs to seek treatment. If he’s not depressed and thinks everything is fine, then perhaps you need to leave him. Treat this like an intervention.
Before approaching the issues with his cleanliness, I would suggest you examine your own role in the relationship.
He sounds like a freeloader, and I have known too many women who put up with constant disrespect for fear of being alone. You work two jobs (yes, making and selling jewelry is a job), he works no job, and hasn’t for the last ten years? And, no housework. Sounds like a problem.
The fact that you have addressed this many times with him, and he has not tried in any real way to help you out. This means he does not respect you and your time and your love, whether he means it or not. Dirty dishes are not that big of a deal, but that he has failed and refused to think about you and your contributions to the relationship, and hasn’t thought about your free time and hard work, is a big deal. The housework is just a symptom of a larger problem, IMHO.
And, don’t forget that your son is absorbing the lessons his dad is teaching him - it’s okay to do nothing all day while your woman takes care of your filth, your bills and your dick. We don’t really need more men like that in the world.
Is your husband motivated by competition?
If so, you can try Chore Wars.
Basically, you sit down and figure out what chores need doing around the house, assign XP to the chores, and then set up real-life rewards for accumulating cleaning XP around the house.
This is the obvious question that I was going to ask.
If he’s never done any housework, either before or after you were married, that probably means he either never learned how or he just doesn’t care.
If he never learned how, but is willing to help, you may need to give him some specific instructions and/or training.
If he just doesn’t care, the question is how, or whether, you can motivate him. Does he care enough about you (or the son) that you can convince him to do it for your sake?
If it’s more recent, then yeah, it sounds like it could be depression or something like that.
And either way, the unemployment is the big issue. Focusing on why a grown man, who has remained unemployed by choice for ten years, doesn’t help around the house is, I think, missing the point. What you should be asking is why a grown man chooses not to work (or to otherwise contribute to his own and his family’s well-being).
I second what Dangerosa said. Get your own place, and let your husband know he needs to decide what’s important to him. Don’t provide financial support–he’s able to work, clearly, if he’s doing all that volunteering, so he should get a job.
If he can clean up his act and be an equal partner in the relationship, move back in–with the understanding that the changes have to last. If he can’t, you’re better off without him. You don’t need two kids to support and clean up after.
And yes, throw things away. If he’s hoarding stuff, get rid of it. Give him a deadline to clean things up, and if he doesn’t do it, start hauling it to the trash.
I’m appalled at those suggesting divorce or separation. This situation is bad, but not that terrible! I’m also surprised at the number of Dopers who seem to be keeping to the ol sexist double standard for men and women here.
The man has not worked in 10 years and is not only not doing housework, but is trying to turn it into a hoarder’s paradise. The OP says she’s repeatedly tried to talk to him about it, to no avail.
The OP is clearly unhappy with the situation and has tried to communicate this. Why do you separation is unreasonable at this point? If the gender’s were reversed, I don’t think the advice would be that much different. Except I do think the possibility of depression would seem more obvious.
I think that, if you look beyond the nuts and bolts of dishes and clutter, you can see that the problem is not housework - it’s being respectful of a person you claim to love.
Adding the job issue, well, it looks more and more like any run of the mill lazy ass husband who doesn’t mind taking advantage of a woman. Lots of these men exist (I have 4 in my family alone), and it is always heartbreaking when these woman wake up in their forties, realize they spent their youth being a sponge, and finally decide to man-up (ha!) and kick these guys out on their ass. This has become an epidemic within lots of poorer communities, where some men don’t see the need to pay child support to the mother of their kid - while they’re living in the same house, jobless, and watching TV all day.
This will not ever end, of course, but if a lot more woman wised up, it would become less of a problem, as the sons of these guys see that women are worthy of respect and that their dads are losers. (Note: I am not directing that at the OPs husband. Well, kinda… )
Re: gender roles - I have no concern about what genitals each one has. It appears to be a lopsided situation, and the OP is getting screwed. I have no issue with house-husbands, but since he’s refusing to even clean the house, he’s just a lazy slob who’s disrespectful of his wife.
Let’s turn it around if you like - say the wife quit work ten years ago to raise the kid, and now the kid is ten, and at school all day. Husband comes home from work, and the housework isn’t done. Ever. Wife still won’t work. Kid is now teenager. Wife still won’t clean house or get a job.
Because separation is the last recourse of a failing marriage, not a catch all for every major issue that comes around. To be frank, the OP is enabling most of the behaviour. I’m going to ignore the fact that he hasn’t worked, since obviously the OP is comfortable with supporting the household. Frankly it doesn’t matter WHO earns money and who keeps house, so long as there is an equitable distribution of work. What IS a problem is that he isn’t pulling his weight in terms of keeping house and other domestic chores. That in an of itself is NOT cause for divorce fer Og’s sake. If I’m reading the OP right, she probably doesn’t deal with confrontation well, and probably has failed to set any consequences for her spouse. There is a possibility that he might be depressed, maybe he’s just messy, maybe he’s a jerk. At any rate, a honest conversation about housework and a plan of action is in order, not a court order.
The OP reads as if this is nowhere near the first time she’s had to deal with this. And continued refusal to respect the wishes of the spouse who is paying for everything is grounds for a separation/divorce, IMO.
And, the OP says that his not working is “by choice (his, not mine)”, which implies that she is not comfortable being the sole support for the family.