It wasn’t a resolution authorizing an invasion per se, it just agreed that Iraq should go along with inspections, OR ELSE. If Iraq submits to UN inspectors, and the inspectors do not find WMD, then there is no OR ELSE, and Shrub does not get to kill anybody.
No kidding.
It’s also a counter to the proposition that “the world scoffs at George Bush”. That was the point.
The world is afraid of the US, that doesn’t mean they respect GWB. I assure you they do not. The perception of Bush as a buffoon (fair or not) is common currency in Europe.
While I’m sure that your dispatches direct from the halls of power carry some weight, Diogenes, they also address a point I didn’t raise.
You really gotta read posts a little more carefully.
This article suggests that Europe is indeed very afraid of the US, but mainly because:
As the title of the article suggests, Europe is “old and in the way”. Why on earth should we care what they natter on about over there? Granted, the US should be engaged with the world–but Europe isn’t “the world” any more, or even a very important part of it. You’re grasping for straws there, Diogenes.
Statements like this are the reason the rest of the world hates us.
:rolleyes:
Scylla, I really thought you were better than that. Ah, well, I’ve been wrong about other things before and probably will be again. But you still have the opportunity, avoided several times already, to address the facts squarely and state clearly what you think should be done and what consequences should be accepted by whom (if the word “want” is still a problem for you, that is).
elucidator, thanks for the retort, unnecessary though it was, the protagonist having demonstrated the level of his maturity quite adequately for all to see.
Now, though, it appears that all we have to wait for is for the UN team to fail to find anything serious, which would simply prove that Saddam had been hiding it, and thereby provide a casus belli right in time for the 2004 elections. Apparently the best time of year to invade Iraq is February, which would conveniently be during the New Hampshire primary and Iowa caucus. Maybe Osama will still be “Wanted, dead or alive”, or maybe not - and it was really quite inconsiderate of him to reveal his non-Schroedingerian status on the same day as Saddam’s acceptance of UN re-entry.
Is that really too cynical of me?
Dunno if it’s cynical, but it is breathtakingly stupid. Check your calendar, Sweet Pea, what month and year is it right now? . . . uh huh (nodding helpfully) that’s right, it’s November 2002. So the inspectors have until February at the latest to submit their report, that’s very good! Yes! (Smiling, nodding vigorously) You did get that right in your first post! But honey . . . next year will be . . . what will it be, honey? That’s right, it will be (slowly mouthing the words along with ElvisL1ves) two thousand and three . . . that’s right. Yes, yes, Sweet Pea, I know that George Bush is a Very Bad Man anyway, but you need to restrain your vitriol before it eats away any more of your higher brain functions.
Actually, I was more interested in how Bush did everything the Democrats said he should, and wound up wrong anyway.
They said he should get Congress to buy into it. Check.
They said he should go to the UN. Check.
They said he should use pressure and negotiation to get Saddam to comply. Check.
Now that he has done all that, it is a deeply laid plot to win the election. elucidator and Elvis1Lives oscillate between calling Bush the dumbest man to ever live, and accusing him of labyrinthine plots that the Borgias couldn’t bring off.
Isn’t it barely possible that Saddam noticed who won the elections just as much as anyone else? And realized with a sinking feeling in his gut that he would have to deal with an American Congress dominated by bloodthirsty warmongers, instead of weak-kneed accomodationists?
To put it that way.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m waiting for one of them to explain the apparent contradiction as proof that Bush sold his soul to the devil, or something like that.
More seriously, I think that the outside world–including Saddam–has indeed taken note of the election results, as Shodan suggests. Don’t forget that one of the key things that convinced the Soviets that Reagan meant business was . . . his firing of the air traffic controllers.
Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on who’s counting) it is impossible to prove a negative.
Therefore, I shall take this space to make a Wild Prediction, bookmark this page so you can throw it in my face when I am wrong:
The inspectors will report that there are no weapons of mass destruction, and they’ve looked everywhere, maybe even in Sammanuel Hustein’s palaces.
The Resident will then tell us that the inspectors are wrong/ they just missed it/ some super-secret special agent has told them this, so they gotta attack him anyway.
Wow, Doghouse I had completely missed the stunning relevence of Ronnie firing of the air traffic controllers to the international situation. It seems to have escaped every one else as well. I had no idea! The Soviet Union collapsed because Ronnie did a monumentally stupid thing and got away with it! They must therefore have realised that God was on his side. Time to give up.
You also seem to have developed a bit of a crush on Diogenes. It might have been best to sort of hint around a bit at first, you know, kind of ease into it. Not everybody is as…emotionally open as you, sugarpants.
Oh, and thanks for the link to American Enterprise. As a source of clear, unbiased information, it ranks right up there with Ann “Anne of Green Goebbels” Coulter.
As to the UN resolution, it would seem that Shodan would have us believe that that the Security Council has given a ringing endorsement to Our Leader’s cause and intent. That does for wild exaggeration what Gibralter does for rocks.
It interested me, amongst others, when Syria voted in favor of the Security Council resolution. It seemed so out of character. Until I read more about it, then it made sense. The Syrians voted for the resolution based on the presumption that the resolution was the only way to prevent an *immediate * American attack. The resolution buys at least thirty days of time, by thier way of thinking, thus is, in fact, an anti war manuever. It is perfectly sensible to assume that similar thinking guides the other participants.
But its hardly of any real consequence, Our Leader has already made it abundantly clear that war is what he wants. The UN is trying to stall that outcome, as well they might. After all, preventing war is what they are there for. It used to be what we were there for. Whenever convenient.
As to Stoids impression of Cassandra, probably right. Bush emphasizes over and over, “zero tolerance”, even the slightest variation from the utterest submission will be taken as clear justification for war. Given this administration’s determination to be unhindered by facts, this is a lead pipe cinch. Our Leader has no intention of allowing Saddam get away with submission and cooperation.
In a twisted sort of way, that makes sense. Sort of. Any of these weapons can be created easily by any country with sufficient technology, which includes just about everybody down to Upper Volta and Chad. Whats to stop Goddam Hussein from flushing all that shit down the toilet, get a clean bill of compliance and start over? Nothing. Plus, if the inspectors go in and find nothing, guess who looks like a total dolt? If I were Goddam Hussein, thats exactly what I would do.
So, there must be a contingency plan. The obvious one is to do as Stoid suggests: if a real violation cannot be found, make one up. Or, even better, let someone else make one up and pretend to believe it. Gee, is there anybody around there who is skilled at intelligence type skullduggery, and really hates Saddam? Think maybe?
It’s a reasonable argument that I have seen in a number of places. Even this pretty radical left wing article (which is apparently the only kind of cite you can understand or believe) states:
Also, regarding this:
If you don’t mind my asking, just what the hell are you talking about? Ad hominem attacks are one thing, but at least you might try attacks that make some modicum of sense. Unless, of course, you’re referring to my response to ElvisL1ves, after he confwused his po’ widdle head about what year it is . . . if so, your own bile seems to be affecting your reading comprehension skills as well.
It’s a reasonable argument that I have seen in a number of places. Even this pretty radical left wing article (which is apparently the only kind of cite you can understand or believe) states:
Also, regarding this:
If you don’t mind my asking, just what the hell are you talking about? Ad hominem attacks are one thing, but at least you might try attacks that make some modicum of sense. Unless, of course, you’re referring to my response to ElvisL1ves, after he confwused his po’ widdle head about what year it is . . . if so, your own bile seems to be affecting your reading comprehension skills as well.
Been doing a lot of traveling in Europe, have ya?
If that happens, I’ll join ya on the protest line.
Quite right, **Dog]/b], it was Elvis. I don’t know why you bother either, I can only hope it isn’t for my sake. Theres a pretty good thread in GD, but the standards are higher.
Spooje it already has. Read the papers, the lies, half-truths and innuendos are all on record. See you there.
Sorry, Doghouse, you need to supply solid, mainstream news sources like mediawhores.com.
:rolleyes;
As long as we are in the prophecy business, here’s mine:
Saddam will stall, deny access to various sites, lie about everything, shoot at airplanes enforcing the no-fly zones, and pretty much carry on as he has for the last ten years.
And the anti-Bush left will call Bush a war-monger.
Business as usual.
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan, it will take about a year to get the UN inspection stuff done, and then, guess what, it’s gonna be 2004! Hence the references to the primaries, which one might have thought to be obvious to anyone willing to think for a moment - which apparently does not include bellicose kneejerkers such as yourself.
That post was not by any means your first example of, what did you call it, “breathtaking stupidity”, though - GD is full of such contributions from you.
Pitiful. Just pitiful. Now go return your GED.
Shodan has a point. “War monger” simply won’t do, it has too many Soviet era implications, not modern enough, no “pizzazz”! Hows about “crisis constructionist”? Or “pro-death activist”? Or “collateral damage enthusiast”?
In so many ways, The Man Who Fell Up defies easy categorization. Who else could peer into the very soul of “Vlad the Impaler” Putin to see the warm cuddliness therein, and name him “Pooty Poot”? A man who can see what no one else can see, that a situation that has gone on for 10 years or more is, in reality, an utterly critical emergency demanding immediate action! Who else saw this glaring truth?
Who else would have been willing to turn his attention, and ours, from the looting of the commonweal by his friends and political allies, regardless of the cost to himself. Selflessly, he began beating the war drum, despite being the father of draft age daughters.
No doubt it was with rueful eyes that he gazed upon Mr. Rove’s campaign of exploiting war fever to political ends, and yet he resolved to shoulder the burden of power and prestige bound to result. And when the facts could not bear the inspection of doubters and nay-sayers, he boldly went beyond mere facts, to realms of hitherto unknown truths that were entirely free of the constraints of reality.
We have not the word for such a man. Well, I have several, actually, but this a family board. Half Elmer Fudd, half Bismarck, he is: Bush!