I am sure some will not believe but thought you would find interesting.

Oh come on, haven’t you ever looked up in the sky in the evening and seen a satellite? They go right past the moon, planets, and stars. They have to be carefully placed so they don’t collide, otherwise we would have more falling stars. Now if I could just get to edge of the earth and climb up the glass bowl that the stars hang from I could pick one and bring it home for a nightlight.

When I first heard this story one of the main points was the irony that the computer, which had just started to come into the public eye, had been used to prove the existence of god.

You mean the easter bunny didn’t Really leave me those eggs?..

dansir, the point is not that you believe in God and don’t need any proof. The point is, are you compelled to try to prove to others that God exists?

You titled your post “I am sure some will not believe, but thought you would find it interesting” and you preface your post with “Subject: God is awesome”.

Do you know why I think God is awesome? Because I have two beautiful children that came from my lovely wife’s body. They are miracles. Because I’ve felt the power of prayer and learned much about a living God through reading and studying a Book that’s over 2000 years old and never gets outdated. That’s truth. Because I have a constant, quiet joy in my heart no matter what my circumstances. That’s the power of love.

I don’t rely on stories purporting to prove Biblical events or justify prophesy. That’s what desperate people do, and my faith makes me far from desperate.

OK, it was an interesting story in the “yeah, right” category. But the supermarket tabloids are full of the same type of pseudo-religious stuff, right along side Bigfoot sightings and alien abductions. They don’t prove anything.

Faith in God, and the subsequent relationship with God, are intensely personal things. How they affect our lives are the greatest stories for “proving” God’s existence to those who seek that proof. But I believe that before we present any proof, we have to spend time cultivating that relationship and strengthening our own faith. And that is not done through stories such as the one you posted.


The Dave-Guy
“Since my daughter’s only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?” J.H. Marx

Frosty, ect. never claimed to be true. Fiction is imagination so why question whether it is true or not. I am sorry but I have read the websites and the evidence to the contrary but still not convinced one way or the other. I thought it was interesting my belief in God is not because of this story and the story being truth or false is not that important to me. However, I will not spread it with out telling the contradictions to it. Is that fair enough…

Please note that they have been several posts already noting that amongst all of the flaws there is one real biggie. If you wrote a computer program to backwards calculate planetary positions the positions would be continuous (i.e. the computer wouldn’t know any different). Only, by being able to compare the computer predicted positions to the actual positions (are you claiming NASA has a time machine?) could you discover that the computer predictions were “wrong” and there was a missing day.

So, please, explain how this story could have happened? I would really like to hear this.


“Glitch … download” - Glitch’s final action. sniff

aseymayo - i don’t really know either - dansir seemed to think it was relevant somehow, so I just thought I’d reply to a question that came up, however tangentially.

what, you expect all posters to stay on topic all the time? MPSIMS would have to shut down!


and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe

dansir, why are you spreading this false, misleading, and unscientific at all?
You cannot say to someone that you don’t know one way or the other if the story is true. We have shown you that it isn’t. The only thing that we will be satisfied with is if you stop spreading lies. Don’t tell the story, because you know it is a lie. Don’t tell someone that you don’t know if it is true or not, becuase that is a lie.
DON’T SPREAD LIES!
Can we be any clearer?

What Slythe said. Furthermore, if someone else repeats the story to you, you should explain to the teller that it is not true, and why. That is, if the truth is really important to you. Further-furthermore, all stories do NOT have “some truth to them.” Some stories are just false, false, false and this is one of them. In honor of this thread I am resurrecting an old comment of mine and replacing my long-standing sig line with it. See below.

Jess

Remember the Straight Dope credo: It’s all about wiping out ignorance, not coddling the ignorant.

Dansir: What Slythe said. Furthermore, if someone else repeats the story to you, you should explain to the teller that it is not true, and why. That is, if the truth is really important to you. Further-furthermore, all stories do NOT have “some truth to them.” Some stories are just false, false, false and this is one of them. In honor of this thread I am resurrecting an old comment of mine and replacing my long-standing sig line with it. See below.

Jess

Remember the Straight Dope credo: It’s all about wiping out ignorance, not coddling the ignorant.

Spiritus Mundi wrote:

Two nitpicks:

  1. 2 Kings 20:9-11 implies that the sun suddenly teleported backward in the sky and the shadow lengthened immediately – not that it moved backwards at the same speed that it usually moves forwards until the shadow was 10 “degrees” back and then resumed moving forward again at the usual rate.

  2. 2 Kings 20:9-11 only talks about the shadow going backward “10 degrees” in the King James translation of the Bible. In both the NIV and the NASB translations, the shadow is said to go back “10 steps on the staircase” of a particular palace. I suppose it’s POSSIBLE that the ancient palace mentioned in 2 Kings 20 would have had its staircase used as a sun dial, but unless this palace still exists or its dimensions and orientation were precisely recorded before it was destroyed, there’s no evidence that one staircase step corresponds precisely to 4 minutes of the sun’s movement.


The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

Dave,
I didnt title the story that is how it was emailed to me. I agree with all that you have said. I have witnessed first hand miracles from God and if I posted them. People would say they were a lie as well that is why I choose to say I do not know if this story is a lie. I know without a doubt that God moved the sun back because the Bible says so. I do not need any one else proving anything to me. The whole world can look me in the face and spout out logical, scientific reasons why the Bible is wrong and I will say IT IS THE TRUTH.
God made the universe and all that is in it and out there. Man made a clock. It takes me a matter of seconds to turn the hands forward or backwards. Why should I think it would take God any longer to move the sun.
The reason I found this story interesting is because man and machine were capable of finding a truth. But to hear all of you to tell it man and machine need a miracle to discover the truth.

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY EVERYONE.
http://www.fishermansnet.com/Angelfairy/af61.html

dansir, if the truth doesn’t matter to you, if the facts do not matter to you, if our opinions and help do not matter to you, I have one small question for you.
Why the hell are you here? There are numerous boards out there for people of blind faith who afraid to ask questions, so why are you wasting your time and this board’s space?

**

This isn’t the fucking Bible.

It’s a bullshit story, made up by someone who is at best a really funny guy with a sense of the perverse, or at worst a liar with an agenda.

Spread the story, and that makes YOU the liar with an agenda. And once you lose tyour credibility with one lie, who will ever take you seriously?

Would Jesus want you to lie? Is your faith really so weak that you need to base it upon lies made up by man rather than the inspired words of God?


Yer pal,
Satan

Jumping back to the circumcision discussion for just a moment…

If you’re interested in the details of the case in question, take a trip to you local bookstore (or to Amazon, if you prefer). Look in the nonfiction section. You’ll find a book by John Colapinto, entitled: As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl.

Hi dansir, good to see you again

But even this has it wrong. Moving the sun wouldn’t change the length of a day. That is determined by the earth’s rotation, unless you believe that the sun orbits the earth.

And Happy Valentine’s Day right back atcha!!!

SLYTHE AND SATAN,
If you notice, I specifically said Dave. I was trying to make Dave understand that this story has nothing to do with my faith in God.
I said I do not know if this story is true and would not say it was but I can see it happening.
Hard core,
Have you ever heard of fugitive language. I am well aware that the earth rotates around the sun.
It is only by believing, hoping, loving, and doing that a man/woman finds joy.
I live my life in my illusions and you live in yours. I am well aware of mine and dont knock you for yours.

OK, one more unclefucking time.

What’s needed for the computer to realize that there’s a missing day, missing 23 hours and 20 minutes, or whatever:

(1) The exact position and motion of the stars and planets now.

(2) The exact position of the stars and planets at a specific date and time prior to the episode with Joshua making the sun stand still.

The first piece of information allows the computer to work forward and backward in time, to say where the stars and planets should be at any time, past or future.

But without the second piece of information, the computer has nothing to compare with. If you don’t know the position of the stars to a fairly exact degree on February 23, 1707 BC, at 2:45am GMT, or on some similarly precise date and time, you have no idea how far off the computer model was, at that day and time.

Maybe the Babylonians, or some other ancient astronomers, were taking and recording such detailed astronomical observations. Probably not. But if they were, we’d still have to (a) find their records, and (b) be able to, independently of the observations themselves, translate from their calendar accurately to ours. AFAIK, we’re 0 for 2.

The point is not that the aforementioned Biblical miracles didn’t happen. The point is that there’s no way NASA’s computer could have proven that they happened, or didn’t happen, for that matter, in anything remotely resembling the manner described.

This is why Harold Hill is a liar, and why you would be too, if you passed on this story (even as something that might or might not be true). It’s not for saying the miracle happened; it’s for claiming proof of the miracle, when the means for the proof are out of our reach.

For all practical purposes, it would be as if he’d said, “NASA flew me to Mars, where we found gold tablets recording the story of the sun standing still,” and recounted that as proof. Again, the problem isn’t whether the sun stood still; we just know that NASA didn’t fly Hill to Mars, so saying they did, citing what he found there as proof of a miracle, would be lying. Same thing here. Regardless of the miracle, we know the proof, as described, couldn’t have happened.

All the story proves is the willingness of many irresponsible Christians to spread stories such as this, and the gullibility of many Christians regarding the veracity of such stories. (You might want to pick up a copy of Os Guinness’ Fit Bodies, Fat Minds, which deals with this subject.) Right now, you’re just gullible. Don’t take it to the next level, OK?

Um, no, I haven’t. But if words were responsible for themselves, I would have to say that those in the story you originally posted certainly ought to be fugitives.


“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal

LOL, RTF. Take a deep breath–it’s not worth bruising your head on the wall. Be strong, brother.

Anyone else find the “angelfairy” page (dansir’s link above) a bit, errr, pagan in implication? I mean, I’m not sure what an Angelfairy is, but I’m pretty sure it’s not Biblical . . . didn’t those Celtic witches believe in fairies?

-andros-