Today I learned a new word (and a useful one.) Thank you @Slow_Moving_Vehicle!
Moderating:
Please focus on the issues and content. Don’t call out posters with unfocused criticism such as this post represents. Better to complain about a specific piece of text without the names. No warning, but don’t do it again.
Maybe handedness is a bad analogy because people rarely commit suicide, are disowned by their parents and kicked out on the street, or beaten up by strangers because of being left-handed. See how it’s not the same?
I think this whole discussion could use some sobering statistical data to put the cis male annoyance at having to acknowledge transgender people in perspective.
7% of cisgender youth attempted suicide in 2017
35% of trans youth did the same
10% of cis youth experienced sexual violence within 12 months
31% of trans youth did
5% of cis youth reported being threatened or injured with a weapon at school in the past 12 months
24% of trans youth reported the same
This is from the Trevor Project, an organization whose mission is to reduce suicide in trans youth.
I wasn’t referring to an annoyance at acknowledging trans people, I was referring to an annoyance at an expectation to announce whether you are one or not when introducing yourself.
Then let me rephrase that, to replace “those who need to specify their pronouns” with the awkwardly long and clumsy “people who will be routinely misgendered if they don’t have the opportunity to tell people what pronouns they use”.
My guess is that you wouldn’t be okay if half the people who met you routinely called you “ma’am” and referred to you as “she”. And even if you, personally, would be okay with that, i can point to people in this very thread who have said it would make them uncomfortable if others didn’t recognize their gender and accept it. That’s not a rare or unusual situation, it’s the majority situation to want others to get your gender right.
So if those of you with obvious pronouns offer them up when it’s convenient to do so (such as when it’s an optional, co-worker-facing HR field, or on name tags or on an email sig or zoom name, you are making it easier for those with non-obvious pronouns to avoid being shunned by people who are more concerned with never risking criticism than with basic politeness. In fact, by helping to make it a common, normal thing to do, you are reducing the odds that some employee will freak out at pronouns and be so concerned to cya (cha?) that they’d damage a co-worker’s career and their own effectiveness as an employee just to avoid interacting with someone who posts their pronouns.
Yeah, umm, that’s not what’s being asked of anyone.
But this is going beyond simply expecting someone to not act as an enemy to trans people and into pressuring them to become an ally. I have no problem with trans people–I wish them well–but their problems are not my problem, and I have no interest in modifying my behavior to have to explicitly point out that I am not something that I am not.
I’ve been retired for ten years, so I’ve never seen it IRL. It seems to me it’s something much more likely to happen in work situations or conferences. Both situations are ones I avoid like the plague, so I know I’m not likely to see it. But it’s certainly not close to universal behavior IME.
Also, the cow-orker meme is one I first heard on the old Salon TableTalk in the mid 90s.
Then don’t. I don’t understand how this is that hard. Just don’t do it, refuse. There’s a whole community out there willing to support you if you decide to refuse.
I guess I’m in your situation, in that I also wish them well. But: just making something explicit? The cost to me seems insignificant, and the benefit seems significant to them, so: why wouldn’t I make stuff explicit?
Because to my ears it just sounds so performative. So Tumblr. I cringe at the thought of “my pronouns are” coming out of my mouth.
I prefer not to introduce myself to others by telling them my preferred pronouns or including that information in my email signature or my profile at work. To me, doing so would be an indication that I’m not secure in my identity. That I feel the need to tell others because it won’t be obvious to them. I do understand perfectly well most people who include their pronouns in an email signature are doing so out of a desire to be inclusive rather than personal insecurities. I am more comfortable not putting that information in my profile or introducing myself to others and telling them my pronouns and I believe that’s perfectly valid. It doesn’t hurt anyone and it allows others to do what they want.
Whether I cringe is up to me. Whether you cringe is up to you. For what it’s worth, I see little value in cringing; something something being useful without vanity something something.
Finally sat down and read the thread. It seems the Qetiapene is helping. I’ve been to a few places where giving my pronouns was expected. As it required little effort, caused me no harm nor inconvenience, I gave my pronouns. I present as obviously male- beard, deep voice, square jaw, shortish hair etc. But giving my pronouns can help other people who might be afraid to giver theirs. So I do it.
Giving it further thought, it feels to me like “how do you do, fellow kids?”. I know that kids today are all about announcing pronouns, but I’m not a kid today and I don’t want to be a kid today.
To me it comes across as “Hey, kids: you’re safe here,” which they seem to appreciate.
I belong to a language group with people in it from their 20s to their 80s. One new-ish person seems to be trans. Nobody asked about identity or pronouns. After a couple of months (because language) pronouns did come up, so I asked point-blank about pronouns and they said they preferred “they.” The rest of us didn’t go around and give ours because we’re all cisgender, but I think the overall welcomingness of the group and our willingness to use their preferred pronouns goes a long way.
I still don’t know their gender identity, only the pronouns. When I sit and think about it, it’s odd to have a friend whose gender I don’t know, but only because I hadn’t realized that was possible. It literally has zero effect on anything.
Regarding this part of the OP, as a CIS gendered person, I would like to say I hear ya’. It is very confusing and unintuitive to us because since our gender and sex are in alignment we can’t easily separate the two. As I said in the OP of another thread (which may be of interest to you regarding non-binary), trying to explain transgenderism to a CIS gendered person seems a bit like trying to explain drowning to a fish. They can’t understand because they have never experienced not being able to breath water.
Gender is some ineffable thing that tends to be correlated with but is not identical to all of the various things you listed. But whatever it is it is very important to peoples psyche such that suppressing it can lead to depression and suicide, and telling people to get over it and accept that their birth gender is who they are is about as effective as telling the drowning person to just stop struggling and breath the water like any normal fish.
Fortunately you don’t have to fully understand transgenderism, all you have to do is accept it. Accept that they exist, that what they are expressing is real, and that there are certain things that we take for granted, that don’t apply to them. Then put in the minimal effort to try to act in a way that will acknowledge this understanding. If you screw up, apologize. Chances are that will be the end of it. If they bite your head off, it could be either that they are mistaking you for someone who is going out of their way to make them uncomfortable, or it may just have been a long day/week/life and you are the straw that broke the camel’s back. In any case a sincere apology with the effort to do better in the future is the best way to defuse the situation.
If offering your pronouns makes you uncomfortable, don’t do it. As i said above, i generally don’t, either. I’m not trying to pressure you to do that.
I’m suggesting it as something that --for many cis people-- is really easy and helps other people. Personally, i appreciate knowing easy ways i can make life a little better for other people, even if they didn’t all apply to me.
The only behavior i intended to cast aspersions on is discriminating against people who do offer their pronouns. I think that is cruel, and mostly ends up hurting a group that’s already at a disadvantage. But if offering your pronouns is hard for you, then don’t do it.
Isn’t Benedict Cumberbatch gay himself?
He’s been married to theater director Sophie Turner since 2015; prior to that, he was in a long-term relationship with actress Olivia Poulet. Doesn’t mean he’s not gay (or at least bisexual), of course.