I agree with the OP. I agree with some of Sultan’s views and I disagree with others. The cross is silly but doesn’t particularly bother me.
He was a jerk. But so was Diane… what about that dumb crude offensive joke manhattan made… she didn’t miss a beat to put in an ugly grin. Sultan was over the top with “Fuck 'em” because he should consider that it would offend others but is it worth banning? It was a flame fest and it is his right to be bothered by the cross. He held an unpopular view and that cost him. Banned without warning?
I particularly agree rescue workers are not heroes. Those who perished to save other lives, absolutely, but sifting through dead bodies abd rubble, no. They are strong men but even if I didn’t have the stomach for that it wouldn’t make me a coward as Diane childishly points out.
My opinion is he was over the top but attending the circumstances it is not a capital mistake. If he didn’t held an unpopular view he would not be banned.
The oversensibilities of a few… I think Diane was offensive (and annoying) too, although I wouldn’t consider a banning obviously. Her comments matched his on a personal level except he dared to attack the workers at WTC in strong terms instead of being there at Ground Zero. I find this argument silly but maybe that is just me. A good thing about not being there is to stay level headed.
You know what? manhattan made an ill advised comment.
Wow. Never saw that in the pit before.
Let’s have a sense of proportion here. This forum is not for the faint hearted, and if you frequent it, fine. But prepare yourself for a kick in the nuts if you exasperate too many people. There’s no shortage of people who will be happy to oblige.
manhattan’s post was not the first or the worst in this precinct. I’ve seen some stuff here that would curl a jackhandle. Don’t ask me for cites. Do your own searches.
I don’t think that Diane was saying that it’s cowardly to not be able to stomach dead bodies. What IS cowardly is what Sultan did: sitting back in his armchair, insulting the workers who had the guts to do something he couldn’t. Willingly forgetting that these men are sifting through the decaying remains of their comrades on a daily basis, finding nothing living. Comparing his own experiences with death to that, and claiming that the loss of a cat, friend or family member equates to what those workers are going through. And then, then, worst of all, passing judgement on what those people are thinking and feeling and experiencing, based on some half-assed generalization. THAT, m’friend, is cowardly.
Maybe not all of those workers are heroes. But I will call you a liar if you ever try to tell me that what they are doing is not heroic.
I think it was pretty obvious that the guy was being offensive merely to piss others off. In that situation, banning is more than deserved. So he didn’t get a warning that we know of. I think it was apparent that he knew that he was being a jerk, especially as he had just asked how far one could go in the Pit. Sure, he may not have actually wanted to cross the line, but he obviously wanted to be right next to it as long as possible.
If you’re the one playing with fire, I’m not going to be too sympathetic when you get burned.
Here we are again, folks. Every banning gets dissected. For what purpose? Not an un-banning I’m sure. Some things are just as regular as clockwork.
The guy was a jerk. He acted like a jerk. He proved himself a jerk. For all the frustration that he expressed on ‘the cross’ thread he should have brought it to the Pit. There were several comments and not so nice language used that was inappropriate for that forum. There are kids that read this board and are allowed by their parents to read that forum. So be it.
The guy specifically asked in ATMB what could be done in the Pit to cause someone to get banned.
So now we have a winner. He does exactly in the Pit what was told to him would get someone banned in ATMB. Smart move on his part. He caused a lot of unrest, hurt feelings, and stirred some healing wounds. I’m a Christian, but displaying the cross isn’t a big deal to me, and probably not to most. If it offended someone I would rather it not be displayed. I imagine the guys on ground zero don’t have that many visitors right now, what with the smell and all. If you want a Star of David, feel free to take it on down. You want a Buddha, take it on down. I doubt these guys would object.
Manny’s comment? A little overboard, but seeing as he is dealing on a personal level with ground zero, I’d cut him a little slack, especially when dealing with a jerk.
The guy deliberately pulled chains to see how far he could go before he was banned. A test of sorts. He got what he wanted. You won’t convince me that he didn’t know exactly what he was doing.
And…he’s still pulling chains.
I don’t much care about any non-warning issue, because of a cynical suspicion that I shall now attempt to verify (or get falsified):
Mods: when you have issued Official Jerk Warning, just how often have they NOT ended up getting banned down the road, even if they eeped-and-turtled initially?
See, my suspicion is that the answer is, “Well…we don’t really keep exact figures. There are exceptions. But usually they end up getting gone eventually.” Maybe my grasp of human nature and its innate stubborness of personality patterns is way out of whack, but I don’t think it is. I wish it were.
Don’t be a jerk. It’s repeated even more often than the “why should they give ANY reason, huh, huh???” thing (answer: they don’t have to. As a rule of thumb, they should, when politely questioned, in order to maintain respect, and be consistent with the jerk-rule themselves. In order to be, in short, reasonable adults dealing with other adults. Rather simple.) When someone violates that in a big and spectacularly idiotic way, odds are they’re not the kind of person that a warning is going to set straight more than temporarily. They’ll crawl back under a rock for awhile, act nice for a time–weeks, months, whatever–then inevitably do what they did the first time. Some of them really enjoy dancing along the line as long as they can. [sub]::coughwbcough::[/sub] They’re tedious, and when they finally do go, it’s overdue.
Lynn done good on this one. A proactive and spot-on judgment call.
Does voicing an unpopular opinion automatically make you a troll? Just because people react the same way to an unpopular opinion as they react to a troll, doesn’t mean that poster should be considered a troll. Sultan had some very valid points, but was attacked incessantly ad hominem by some very close-minded people.
I noticed the same thing happened a couple of weeks ago in a thread about sexual harassment. Someone who had an unpopular opinion, after being attacked, ganged up on, and misquoted, was banned.
I guess some ignorance isn’t worth fighting for on these boards.
It isn’t. It’s the same. It express a contempt for someone so profound that you are declaring that, were you a dictator, you would disallow their comfort/discomfort solely to assuage your own.
It’s not the cross one way or the other; it’s the “don’t give a fuck”.
Questions for you. Did you read the thread? Did you comprehend what was written? Do you read English? The pathetic coward comment was in reference to his very vocal, very offensive, disgusting bullshit comments he made against the recovery workers while at the same time admitting that he could not touch the dead body of his friend because it was cold and lifeless. I have no problem with him being queasy with dead bodies, nor did I make any judgment on those of us (including myself) who don’t have the stomach to dig rotting pieces of bodies from the rubble. That was never an issue.
What I was referring to that you so obviously missed, is that he slammed the holy shit out of these workers while he doesn’t possess a tenth of the courage or stomach to do what these people are doing. THAT is the part that is pathetic and cowardly.
Now I’ve always considered Sultan a bit of a prick, and don’t care one way or the other whether he’s gone or not.
However, I am distressed that we haven’t heard a friggin’ PEEP from manhattan about the absolutely heartless comment that he interjected about Sultan’s dead grandmother. I don’t care if this is the Pit, this is a Moderator we’re talking about here. Granted, manhattan does a wonderful job over in GQ; but to not have received so much as a warning? I’ve lost all respect for Manny from this puerile pile-on. I’m callin’ ya out, and I’d hope you’d offer more than an apology. How about stepping down temporarily as a mod until you can get some goddamn sensitivity training, or whatever your heartless soul needs. Sorry, but you are held to a higher standard. And you suck-ups who laughed along should get your lips out of manny’s ass.
And, Diane, you make me just as sick, and yet you try to ride on some moral high horse. Yeah, Sultan was an a-hole and made inexcusable, heartless comments. But you kept goading it on as well. The real pussy, in my opinion, is also the coward who shouts out damnations from the safe anonymity of cyberspace. That includes YOU.
Diane I read the thread and was appalled by your comments. I am surprised you were not warned. And before you point out, yes I am relatively new here. The fact you have been here longer does not give you license to do what you did. It should actually be the contrary, you should know better. Re-read your posts in that thread and tell me they are not full of bile. Your attitude in this thread is very similar. Whoever disagrees with you is to be an object of ridicule or contempt. :rolleyes:
Before you start condemning manhattan for not dropping by, he can’t.
When the new T1 line was installed in his office it came with software that prevents him getting to several sites, this one included, during office hours.
He also has been working late for the last few weeks and attending funerals all over NY, so cut him some slack.