Lots of people aren’t looking for meaning in that desk job, they’re looking for it elsewhere. But until our society throws out capitalism in favor of something more like a gift economy, we do the job to pay the rent. AND we find our meaning elsewhere.
I got shit to do that will completely fill up and overflow whatever time I have available for it. My hard cutoff is the balance between needing to earn money, and needing time to achieve my goals. Since my goals are more important to me, money only has value as far as it keeps me housed, fed, and able to work towards those goals. Every once in a while it would even be nice to have a night off that happens because I planned it that way and not because I’m too exhausted to keep working. Time is just more valuable, so I’ll keep as much of that for myself rather than selling it to someone else, thanks.
You’re the only one in the thread that has said that – that’s on you, not anyone else. “Not for me” is not the same thing as “you shouldn’t like it either!” In fact, isn’t that a running theme through this whole discussion? That differences aren’t bad?
I seriously wonder if you’ve ever worked full-time before, Protoboard. You didn’t indicate it in your posts, only that your ‘psyche’ can’t handle working more than 30 hours a week. Is this because you haven’t experienced it? Its a little more persuasive to give an example (i.e. "I had this really demanding job with long hours and a horrible commute for X years and it convinced me I didn’t want to do this for the rest of my life).
Personally I have a job that has me working over 40 hours a week and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. My job pays well enough to easily subsidize my lifestyle. I have enough saved up to live a year on zero income if I had an emergency/lost my job. My job allows me to afford a reliable car, which in turn gives me the flexibility to go anywhere I want. My job offers overtime and I have the freedom to work as little as 35 hours to as much as 100 hours a week if I want to. I choose a schedule that is a balance between raking in the overtime and still having time outside of work. I worked to get a job where every 1 hour of overtime is worth 3 hours of leisure. Working an extra 1.5 hours a day allows me to pay for things I don’t want to spend doing (cleaning, maintenance, etc) and focus all my non-work time on leisure.
While its a quaint concept to live with low standards and goals, for many outgoing and positive people it gets old after a while. Sooner or later you may want something in life- it may not be the stereotypical house/dog/babies/etc but it might be SOMETHING. And those things will require this thing called effort to get them. It might mean to have the lifestyle you want, you may need to work more hours than you want. To have a woman in your life you want, you may need to be more ambitious and goal-driven. The thing is, all the truly happy and self-actualized people (even counting all the non-Banal non-Sheeple types) are at the very least extremely driven and motivated toward personal goals, which means ultimately their lives are dynamic. If you want things you don’t currently have, obviously you are going to do something different with your life since you are obviously not happy with your life otherwise you’d accomplished these things.
Your age, and the criticism of your age, also reflects the fact that there are plenty of jaded twentysomethings out there that either don’t really know what they want to do with their life, or they are so discouraged so much in life is difficult and not guaranteed. A lot of them seem to have a ‘sour grapes’ attitude about things in life they’re not even confident they can ever achieve.
I’ll just add… working “40 hours a week” take up a hell of a lot more time than 40 hours. My current “40 hour” (usually paid for 35ish hours, actually) occupies my time for 10-11 hours per day. Two hours of (completely unnecessary) commuting, plus lunch that I’m not paid for but I’m still an hour from home so there’s not much I can do with it. Add in time to shower, cook and eat dinner, and maybe attempt to keep the apartment from disintegrating into squalor, how much time do you think I actually have left for meaningful things? Or, you know, sleep? It’s not as much time as you clearly think I have, I’ll tell you that.
The second I have the chance to scale back my work hours, I absolutely will. I’m running on fumes right now.
All I have to say that if feeling like an alien and that you’re different from everyone else is distressing, just wait until you realize that despite all that bullshit, you’re EXACTLY the same as everyone else… maybe a tad smarter or better looking, but for all intents and purposes, they have the same concerns, desires, wants, needs, etc… that you do.
And then wait until you’re in your 40s. Whatever existential angst you had in your 20s pales by comparison to the sort of mid-life crisis type angst that hits people at that age, at least in my experience. It’s sort of a follow-up to the earlier adulthood angst, except more along the lines of “WTF have I been doing? Why did I do it? What can I do now? I’m screwed! I’m not actually immortal (like it seems in your 20s)!” and so on.
And whining about 40 hrs a week? That’s a bit entitled. Plenty of people work a lot more than that, and are screwed over worse, I’m sure. I figure you get probably 4-5 hours of non-work related time a day (depending on bedtime) if you work a 40 hour day and commute an hour each way. This is assuming you get home at 6 pm, and that the hours from waking up to 6 pm are all work-related. That’s not so horrible.
Dude, I can’t understand how some people are ao angry over someone else wanting to work less than 40 hours a week. If less than 40 hours a week makes someone happy and still pays the bills, then what the hell, man? Why get all up in arms over how he should expect to be doing that much work, and other people do more work than that, and this person and that person loves their 50 hour a week job, and he’s whiny and sheltered because he wants less than 40 hours? If it makes him happy, that’s all that matters.
We’ve pretty much gone over the fact that differences are fine, so if the guy wants to make a 30 hour job his life goal more power to him. I can respect a goal like that. Means he’s actually considering why he’s working hard and whether he prefers time or money. His goals sound possible, given a little effort (and where has he said he won’t put the effort in to get what he wants?). Maybe the goals will change later. Maybe they won’t. He’s not parading around saying “this is how my life will be…FOREVER AND EVER!”
Really, what’s with all the “Stupid whiny boy, you should expect to work 40 hours a week, maybe more, and be grateful for it. You won’t get a house and kids otherwise!” It just goes opposite of the guy’s stated current life goals. Are we really getting annoyed that he is not being like us? Guess we’re proving a point.
And yes, I make a point to pick jobs that make me happy. I currently have 8 free hours to myself on weekdays. “4 or 5”? Not enough for me. So I made a point to get a job that accommodates what I want, just like he’ll be doing.
Sounds like White-Knighting to me. No reason to be so insecure about it, since obviously the hours you work at a job don’t determine your self-worth, right?
I used “meaningful” work as in performing a service meaningful enough that someone will pay you for it. Not spiritual fulfillment. If you don’t want to contribute value to society, fine. However you won’t be able to extract anything of value in return. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.
Yes, yes. Everyone has interests… but a hard cutoff? What if I gave you an extra million dollars to work 1 hour more than your hard cutoff? How hard is that cutoff now? An extra billion?
Um, what exactly is on me? I guess reading:
as someone like me who works 50 hrs a week, my goals are not as important to me as your goals are to you? I suppose it is a tad bit defensive but your quote does come off a bit judgmental (if trite and naive).
The thread is rife with people saying that they absolutely are physically incapable of working more than 30 hours because… [insert trite Fight-Clubby-bullshit here]. I’m just saying that we’re not as different as you think and having a 40+hr job is not as restrictive as you make it out to be.
I don’t know how long you sleep but accounting 9 hrs for sleep, 1 hr to groom, 1 hr to eat, and 1 hr to clean, that leaves you with 2 hrs of leisure time a day. I’m not as well groomed, live close to my work, and don’t usually get a solid 8 hrs so I have upwards of 5-6 hrs a day. So somewhere between 2-6 hrs of leisure time a day, plus 2 full days on the weekend.
If you’re so embittered from work, it doesn’t sound like you have a problem with the hours but rather you have a problem with your job. Also, I tend to count the hours set for meals and bathing as leisure because like the capitalistic pig that I am, I enjoy eating and taking bubble baths.
Thing is, I’ve had a 45 hour a week job and it made me absolutely miserable. Direct experience. So yes, for some people a job like that IS as restrictive as we make it out to be. Not you, obviously. But for me and others, yes. I’m not sure why it’s such a bone of contention; that we must be wrong about our assessment. I know what I want and what I can deal with. In the hypothetical situation of a million more dollars I might work a few months and then leave, since I need the time more than I need the money.
Also, I think there’s only about 3 people in the thread talking about this less hours thing positively at all. I can do 40. In practice I do something like 37. I’d prefer 30, really. But over 40 is a no-go for me. It’d be cool if there were more 30 hour jobs to pick from in the world - makes my life easier.
Wow. Okay. So I work, get paid, and have a whole other career to contribute meaning to society – and yes, myself – get paid, and you leap to the conclusion that none of this is valuable? And YOU’RE getting defensive? Holy crap.
Why don’t we stay within the realm of reality? Just what are impossible hypotheticals supposed to prove? No one is going to actually give me a billion dollars for an hour of work, so I’d know an offer to that effect would be a big fat lie and would respond to it accordingly.
Yep, you got it exactly. I didn’t say a word about your goals. I was talking about mine. If you interpret my having goals that are important to me as a reflection on your goals, or in any way related to your goals whatsoever, that IS on you, not on me. Protip: I don’t care about your goals, nor have I put any thought into whether or not you find them meaningful. What you derive meaning from is ALSO your responsibility.
No idea why you think I’m naive. There are people in this thread who are currently working reduced schedules. I’ll be moving toward that within a couple months. It’s a thing that really happens.
You’re forgetting a whole ton of things: laundry (four hour block, minimum), groceries (2-3 hours), errands (I need to run to the pharmacy tonight), cooking that meal I’m eating (anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on how complicated it is), exercise, paying bills, doing taxes, and I’m sure I’m forgetting stuff – and this is still basic daily living. We’re not including rehearsal – which is a minimum 3-4 hour block plus travel time. Film shoots are 8-12 hour blocks. Then there’s character research and script review. And developing scripts and story ideas. I also need to market myself, communicate with collaborators, search call boards for auditions, network with people to find someone with the skills I need to launch my production company, create marketing materials, attend industry workshops, check email…
2 hours a night of LEISURE time? Oh no, my friend. I don’t get time off.
I’m embittered? No, just busy, and pointing out that your ideas of how much “leisure time” I have are way, WAY overblown. My “leisure time” is sleep, and no, I don’t get 9 hours of that either (I wish).
I love my career. I’m cool with my day job as long as it serves me. It will soon need to serve me by taking up less of my time. That’s not something I’m angry about, but it’s something that apparently YOU are upset about. I have no idea why.
Maybe in the past, but with everything you try in life you learn what you need to do to get another spoon. For me, taking less demanding work was a key element. I’ve been depression-free for a long time now! This thread is making me pretty happy and grateful right now as I think about all the things in life I don’t have to do
If you can work few hours and still accomplish the things with work that you need to accomplish, more power to you.
If you decide to pick an arbitrary low amount of work you might find that you can’t get hired or you can’t pay for the things you want.
Most people don’t work the hours they work because they want to work. They work the hours they work because they either need to to survive or because they can’t pay for the things they want or need without the hours they put in. If we judge people and say “I will never be like THOSE idiots!” all we are doing is potentially cutting off our own ability to be flexible and to adapt to any changing circumstances we may encounter. Basically, we can snob our way out of sane, rational choices.
Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but this is not possible.
At least, it isn’t possible with your goal of “financial security and not having to worry”, let alone the vacations. Even if you lived independently on $830 a month, you would have constant worry because anything unexpected could ruin you instantly.
I’m wondering if you have ever attempted this. Have you ever lived independently on $830 a month? Were you free of worry? Did the 25 hours fly by even though minimum wage jobs are not known for being fun?
One reason you might work more is simply that the job was more fun than your current job. Or because you were constantly worried while living on the edge of homelessness. It really isn’t the lure of an 89" tv that pulls most people away from the comfortable, secure life of leisure that 25 hours of minimum wage a week earns you.
I personally would love it though if average work weeks were lower and the pay was still enough for some measure of security.
I think the part that’s torqued a lot of people out of shape are the comments about working 40 hours a week and “running on fumes”, and other things that are a little absurd, especially from the perspective of people working more hours than that.
I don’t think anyone’s really saying anyone should work more if they don’t need to, but rather not to bitch about a 40 hour a week job like it’s a major hardship, because, well, it’s not. It’s the norm. The standard by which other working arrangements are measured.
30 hours a week is pretty sweet. 40 is ok. 50+ sucks. You really don’t have any spare time for yourself at 50 hours or more a week; it seems like all you do is work or get ready for work during the week, and all you do on the weekends is play catch-up on home stuff leftover from the week (laundry, cleaning, etc…).
Almost fifteen years ago I lived on $12,000 a year in northern NJ. My existence was not miserable. I remember thinking to myself quite frequently that I could live like that for the rest of my life.
But I lived in a roach-infested 350 sq-ft apartment. I didn’t have frequent houseguests, but those people who dared to come over would never come back. Because ROACHES. And because the elevator didn’t work and you’d have to walk up six flight of urine-soaked stairs.
I didn’t have a car during this time. So I walked and rode my bike everywhere. Even when it was raining. Even when it was snowing. Even when it was a heatwave. My shoes turned to shreds. I went through multiple coats because I could’t afford to buy something that would last. I’d get home at the end of the day too exhausted to do anything physical. Which mean my little apartment was always a mess.
I ate like poorly. Lots of cheap dollar a slice pizza. I’d mix cheese whiz with spaghetti noodles, thinking I was living high off the hog. Crackers for lunch. No fruits or vegetables. No wonder I was always tired.
Entertainment was easy. I’d catch a train to NY and go to the free museums and street festivals. I’d do lots of window shopping. But I couldn’t afford to go to a decent sit-down restaurant. I couldn’t afford to go to any shows. I felt excluded from things.
I didn’t have health insurance. I had to ask my parents for airfare to visit for the holidays. I couldn’t buy Christmas presents. I felt like a grown-up, but I really wasn’t.
Don’t get me wrong. I was happy during this time. It was a total “zen” experience and I don’t regret it one bit. But man, it was hard living. It was the kind of life that a 20-something can take on because they aren’t burned out by anything yet. But I would have lost my mind if I had been stuck with those roaches for more than a couple of years. I don’t think my body would have been able to handle all that walking I did, and I walk six miles a day now. So I’m very glad 22-year-old me wasn’t as content with minimal income as she thought she was.
