Actually, the priest isn’t supposed to say that, because he doesn’t know the person really is in a better place.
You genuflect towards the tabernacle, which is sitting on the altar. If there’s no tabernacle present, then you bow to the altar.
Anyone know how long Coptic funerals are? The services are up to four hours long, standing, and with men and women separated.
As a former Anglican, I’m grateful for the general brevity of Mass. We’re in and out before an hour is over. My low-Anglican family church routinely had two hour services, during which we sang praises choruses over and over and over and over and over and over… I’d much rather sing all four verses of something.
I’m sure an hour seems really long to someone unused to any church services at all.
The (a casket) quip was my addition. But the priest seemed sure she had joined her loving husband who predeceased her by a few months and they were together again. No one disputed his claim.
How sure? Pretty darn.
It’s not a new trend. People have been doing it as a replacement for the requirement to kneel for communion ever since that (sadly) was removed in the 1970s.
I thought it was interesting, too. I joined the liturgy committee at my parish a few years ago, and was amazed to find out how much I DIDN’T know about the mass, despite having attended what seems like millions of them in my lifetime. The thing that was most interesting was stuff that isn’t supposed to be done, that is often added in. For instance…
When I joined the committee, it was when the church was in the process of adding a couple of things to the General Instruction that weren’t in there before. One of them was a universal sign of respect to the Host, which is that small bow/head nod that they added. From what I heard, it was in response to this situation, where some people are genuflecting, some people are doing the sign of the cross, etc. This gives one thing that everyone does (and doesn’t slow down the Communion line, I suppose…not that this should necessarily be a consideration, but if it wasn’t we’d probably still have communion rails!)
This is the one that just irritates me to no end. Not only is this practice of holding hands NOT in the General Instruction, but the Bishops have put out a letter saying that it’s not supposed to be done. A lot of people like it, though, and my experience is that these liturgy committees like the one I was on tend to take liberties with what it says in the General Instruction. Once it starts catching on in a parish, or if there’s a priest who likes to do it (at one parish I sometimes attend, the priest actually instructs everyone to hold hands), it’s hard to shake it. I’m with you…ugh!
That is true…
In Catholic theology, it’s assumed that the person is in purgatory for an indefinite length of time, unless the Church has canonized that person as a saint. That’s why it’s inappropriate for the priest (or anyone else) to make the statement that the person is in a better place/in heaven/etc. The Church has gotten a little touchy-feely, and likes to say things like that to make people feel better, but you’re not supposed to. And certainly, if the priest says it, no one is going to contradict it.
Yes, the rule was changed a few years back. It was announced in church that we’re now supposed to bow before accepting both forms of communion. We’re also supposed to bow during the line, “by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.” of the Nicean Creed. I honestly don’t know why.
As far as the mass being long, I’m used to hour long services so I’m a bit flabbergasted when I attend very brief services because it’s over when I’m just settling in. I’d much have a long prayer service preceded by a brief visitation vs. a lengthy visitation followed by a brief prayer service. I recently attended a 4 hour (!) visitation and I found it to be exhausting and unnecessarily awkward. It’s really hard to be social and mingle with strangers, yet remain somber, for that length of time.
I, personally, find services of other denominations to be fascinating. I once attended a Greek Orthodox funeral of a young man who died of CF. At one point, they had a procession in the middle of the service where his mother actually threw herself on his casket and wailed. Greeks emote a lot more than the stoic Germans I’m used to being around.
And Macedonian weddings are really odd. At one point the couple and their godparents danced around the alter and threw coins and candy at the crowd. And they exchanged crowns…cool yet odd.
I think that we need to remind our non-Catholic Dopers that virtually every major life ceremony (baptism, first communion, wedding, etc.) is carried out as part of the mass. I don’t think this is a rule (my niece’s baptism was carried out outside of mass), but out of the dozens of Catholic ceremonies I’ve gone to they’ve almost always been part of the mass. It threw me when I went to a coworkers’ Baptist wedding–over in five minutes. It almost seemed like it was too quick to register.
Anglophone Catholics. The francophones seem to remember that the wedding is a celebration and there is a party to go to after, but the anglophones just seem to want to chant and pray for hours on end! Though the particular priest didn’t help - both anglophone Catholic weddings I’ve been to had priests with ridiculously monotonous voices! The two francophone Catholic priests kept making little jokes and cheerful comments. I’d hate to go to a funeral led by the former, but the latter might not be so bad!
What struck me, at one of them (anglophone), was that during the entire hour and twenty minute ceremony, the bride and groom were mentioned exactly three times. Once for “we are gathered here” , once for “Do you take?” and again for “I now present you”. Jesus and God got the rest of the ceremony. I understand that they are very important to people who are married in the Catholic church… but still. Don’t they get the limelight every Sunday? Couldn’t the priest at least pretend the bride and groom were even there? They had to sit in chairs and just wait until they were allowed to kiss. It seemed kind of sad and impersonal, actually.
On the other hand, I went to a Catholic funeral (francophone, in case anyone cares) for a man I never met (my SO’s grandfather, very shortly after my SO and I started dating). It was beautiful and moving, despite the fact that the person’s name wasn’t mentioned all that much. I guess it really depends on the church/priest as much as anything.
And can any Catholics explain why a friend-of-the-family’s priest would tell a Christmas Mass story about Jesus being born in a Cave? 'Cause that’s not the story I learned (though I’m not religious, and wasn’t raised in any church at all!)
Huh. In my shul, *regular * Shabbat morning services last 1.5 to 2 hours, give or take. I’ve found that adding in a bar/bat mitzvah (they’re usually just incorporated into the regular service, though some people opt to do them in the evenings) usually doesn’t add too much more time (maybe 1/2 hour) to the service.
Having said that, whenever I go to services where there’s a bar/bat mitzvah scheduled, I find it easier to prepare myself for a three-hour long service since the bar/bat mitzvah boy’s/girl’s* d’var torah, audience discussion/Q&A about the d’var torah, their talk about their bar/bat mitzvah project, and speeches/blessings by rabbis and parents and other family members/friends/fellow congregants can really add to the length of the service.
Of course, all of this is sometimes mitigated by the oneg or luncheon afterwards since, at my shul, the food at these things can be pretty damn good. And I’m *really * happy to be in shul for the extra 2-3 hours if the sponsoring family provides copious amounts of wine! 
*Or adults, since there are members of my shul who, for various reasons, weren’t bar/bat mitzvahed as teenagers.
I wasn’t referring to religious ceremonies here but to new experiences in general. It could be anything, new places, new people, new type of food etc. Do you always behave as if Bigfoot just asked you for a beer or are you usually less provincial?
This isn’t new. You’re supposed to have been bowing your head at those words during the Creed for years. The bow replaced the genuflection that formerly took place at the words “et incarnatus est” during the Creed.
I’m fairly certain that’s wrong… Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, there is to be no assumption at all. Only hope.
Bethlehem had lots of caves and they were typically used for stabling animals. The Bible just says he was born in a manger, not that it it was in a free-standing stable.
This idea isn’t new: In the 300’s, the Church of the Nativity was built over the cave where Jesus was believed to have been born.
It makes for interesting symbolism.
That makes sense, now that you say it. But I guess my point was that saying that the deceased is in heaven in order to comfort the mourners isn’t really supposed do be done during a Catholic funeral mass. It’s an inappropriate assumption, unless, as I said, the person has been canonized.
One thing I think some folks don’t realize is that eveyone who has made it to heaven is considered a saint. The people Cathlolics call “saints” are people who the church has decided that we can make that assumption that they are there. Everyone else, we just pray for, in hopes that our prayers will help them get there if need be.
Oh, BTW, if you want to see something, go to a Greek Orthodox baptism. By the time they’re done, that kid is well and truly baptized. Took about two hours, involved changing the babies’ (twins) clothes like four times, we cast out all kinds of demons and devils and dragons and such, and a baby peed on a godfather. Good times.
When my Aunt Julia died, she wanted a full Catholic funeral. So the entire family (aunts, uncles, and multitudes of cousins) make their way to north Georgia. Picture a sanctuary filled with Baptists of various degrees of piety, some Pentecostals, and a few rednecks who haven’t seen the inside of a church since puberty, but not a Catholic in the bunch. But we loved our Aunt Julia and so we were there.
So there we were, terminally confused, trying desperately to figure out when to participate and still be respectful, when we missed the second cue to respond to the priest. He went over to an altar boy who left the room and came back with two ladies from the church office. Yep, the priest brought in Ringers to show us what to do and when to do it. And it worked!
Did they have incense? I seem to remember them pulling out the most noxious incense for funerals, I guess it was supposed to remind you of death.
You should definitely hold out for an Irish wake next funeral.
The nicest funeral I ever attended was a Native American one. We stood in a circle outside in a park. The shaman said some stuff, the husband said some stuff, we went around the circle and everyone said something about the woman. They passed a ceremonial pipe but you weren’t expected to smoke it, just take it raise it in the air and then pass it on. It was a short ceremony but very spiritual.
Isn’t that the tune of the Welsh song “Bread of Heaven”. Didn’t know there was another hymn with the same tune.
Let’s just say you probably don’t want to invite me to your funeral.
One detail I forgot about, folks…the smoking of the casket. Just before it rolled down the aisle for the last time, the priest lit something in a small brass container and swung it over, around and near all sides of the casket. Any Catholics want to tell me what this is called and what the ritual significance is?
I guess if you put me on the witness stand and asked if the priest said they were in Heaven, I’d have to admit he might not have used those exact words. I might have made that association in my non-Catholic mind, where purgatory doesn’t exist. But I’m sure he said they (husband and wife) were “together again” and in a “happier place” and I don’t think he was talking about the place that never freezes over.