This is why I try always to be polite. I figure that they don’t need another hostile response or slammed door. I’ve befriended some of the missionaries in our neighborhood and had them over for dinner. They have been very helpful to our neighborhood association, even after we had a pact that they wouldn’t try to convert me and I wouldn’t try to convert them (a pact which all of us honored, btw). Being rude or hostile is not going to keep these folks from going about their appointed rounds, it will only make their day less pleasant. I don’t figure I deserve any feathers in my cap for making someone’s day less pleasant. I only get (borderline) rude with people who won’t accept a polite “no, thank you” (and as I’ve said, this has happened with JWs, but not with LDS).
Advertising is pretty annoying in almost all its forms. It’s the “I know something you don’t know” self-righteousness of religious salesmen that bothers me. I feel that if there was a god, we’d all know it and no one would have to tell me about it. The fact that they have to convince people, sell people, sway people…however you want to put it…tells me that it’s all bullshit. The fact that they would be chosen before me to learn The Truth is silly and unbelieveable. The fact that ANYONE would be chosen before me (or anyone else) is ridiculous. And the fact that a god would send some dude with a clipboard to clue me in is insulting. He can tell me himself and spare me the suspense.
My experience with LDS missionaries was with a couple of boys who came to the Nursing Home where I worked to volunteer. They were required to do N hours of work per week that was purely public service, not religion related.
These were two of the nicest, and apparently happiest, guys I ever met in my life. Whatever else they may become in later life, they were the real deal when I met them. They had spent their childhood and earlier teens saving up for the $2K or so that they could *pay * for the *privilege * of doing two years of thankless missionary work and public service. While I could not share their religious beliefs (and it was NEVER, EVER raised or mentioned by them, not ONCE), I was truly impressed by these kids.
I have had Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my house once when I was at home. I told them nicely that I was an atheist, but that I did my best to be a good person. I asked them to remember me as an example of the fact that you don’t need religion to have morality. They were very nice, and went away immediately, and I haven’t seen them since. I’ve seen Mormons in the neighborhood, but they’ve never come to call on me at a time that I was home. If they ever did, I’d tell them the same as I told the JWs, and I’m sure they’d go away as readily.
That being said, raindog, don’t be so quick to disbelieve Wang-Ka’s story. A lot of things that have been said in this thread, I’ve taken with a grain of salt, but in his younger days, Wang-Ka was nuts enough to have done what he described. He was also one of the finest, truly nicest, and funniest Dopers ever, and I miss him a great deal.
Point well taken, and it is nice to hear a voice of reason. (Yours and some of the others)
I won’t kick a dead horse, but there are some details in Wang-Ka’s story that don’t jive with JW protocal. I’ll leave it at that, and concede that it may have happened in substance, even if some of the details may differ.
Thank you, raindog, I really do appreciate it. And I was exagerating when I said 6 AM.
It was more like 6:15.
I still am in the camp that just doesn’t get the rabid animosity about someone knocking on your door (or ringing your doorbell, whatever) to share their “good news” with you. You characterize them as self-righteous, but I think your perception is skewed by your prejudices. I spent some time once in Salt Lake City having a very sweet & pleasant young LDS woman guide me around their Temple Square and listened politely to her explanation of what their church has to offer me. She did not in any way seem arrogant or self-righteous. She didn’t take offense at all when my husband and I told her that we didn’t agree with certain fundamental LDS tenets of faith, and that we preferred our non-denominational Christian church to the LDS church based on these differences. I could tell she felt that she was offering me something that was of value to her, and I appreciate that.
To think that because no God has approached you personally to inform you of his/her existence is a reason that these missionaries are wrong about their faith is absurd. I won’t even go there.
But - they are also selling you on other aspects of their way of life that you can’t possibly know about any other way than by being told (whether that’s in person or by researching it another way). There’s nothing “bullshit” about that, and it shouldn’t be offensive. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with what they’re selling - maybe it’s not for you. But it could be just the thing that completely changes the life of your hypothetical neighbor, “Wally”, for the better. Maybe he’s in a deep depression, has marital problems, or whatever. Maybe he was raised in complete ignorance about the LDS church or JW church, and maybe he has an open mind about listening to some people who seem happy & caring & he wants what they have. That’s the guy they’re looking for. They don’t know he doesn’t live at your house. You shouldn’t take that personally.
I dunno - maybe I’m too tolerant of others.
On the other hand, maybe some people are just trying to justify their hatred of religion and anyone who participates in it.
Search your superhuman tolerance and you may find some less extreme explanations for the phenomenon.
Wow, a snarky response. Not what I would have expected at all. :rolleyes:
I’m really glad that I live in a controlled access building. No unwanted visitors of any kind!!
Though The Raindog, I have to say that some of the points you mentioned have been my exact experience with convertors of all religions. They have, in my experience, very little knowledge of the history and theology of the religion they are trying to get you to join. (I’ve talked to fundie christians,mormans,JW’s et al) and while I have never lectured one for hours, I usually get into enough points to figure out that they don’t know much of anything beyond what they’ve practiced and that’s the point I quit talking to them. I am never rude to them and rarely engage them in theological debate, but it would be nice if more of them knew what they were talking about.
LOL
Did you approach them? The fact that you were at their church tells me you had some interest in something there. That’s a completely different scenario.
And that’s fine. I never said they were all arrogant or self-righteous. We’re speaking specifically of door-to-door salespeople here.
Oh…I get it. I’m not *goooood * enough. Not goddy enough to even be approached. Even though millions have been invited by the man himself. Murderers, politicians, and ne’er do wells alike. Absurd, indeed.
Maybe…but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re intruding on people (whether they take a polite “no thanks” or not). The percentage of people who will choose LDS over a shrink or a marriage counselor is so slim that it isn’t worth including in this conversation. For that matter, according to another poster, they rarely hit pay dirt with the door-to-door approach anyway, so what’s the point?
You say that like it’s a good thing. I don’t feel a need to be tolerant of pushy people who want to intrude on my space to feed me their brand of bullshit.
The ones lacking tolerance are those who feel they need to capture every. last. soul. They really need to give it a rest.
And maybe some people just need the religious to practice amongst themselves.
I actually had a JW visitation this weekend - at 8:03 am EST. I know this because I glanced at the VCR clock (the only functional clock outside the bedroom on the main floor of my home) wondering who was at our door. Too early for the mailman, and none of the close relatives were at all likely to come over before noon on a Saturday without calling. My husband and I sleep late, a fact which is well known to our intimates.
Happens I was awake because I’ve been ill and I didn’t want to wake my dearly beloved with my restlessness.
I answered my door in my ratty sweat pants and one of my sweetie’s t-shirts, with Kleenex stuffed up my nose and the glassy, wild-haired look of a girl who has a nasty head cold and doesn’t care what she looks like anymore.
The impeccably dressed ladies at the door persisted past my disclaimer that “No, thank you, we are not interested in your faith as we’re happy with our own”, they kept trying to get me to let them into my house after I’d pointed out that a) I wasn’t dressed for company, b) I was ill, c) my husband was still asleep, d) I had food on the stove, e) my cats are traumatized by strangers, and f) my house was in no shape for visitors of any stripe. All truthful statements. When I went to shut the door, after having been polite for some minutes and not getting anywhere, one of them actually stuck her foot in the door. I had to ask her to remove it and herself from our property.
I’m glad she was excited about her message and eager to share, but high-pressure sales techniques have a time and a place, and convicing someone to join your faith isn’t it.
Granted, there are probably a number of quite polite and mannerly door-to-door missionaries. I’ve met a number (mostly LDS actually - all the LDS missionaries I’ve come across have been, without exception, very, very polite people who didn’t press their mission after I’d indicated I wasn’t interested, but who chatted for a few moments anyway). I’m mortally certain that JW missionaries have a set and established set of guidelines and that most of their missionaries follow it to the letter. But not all of them do. It doesn’t take many bad experiences to sour people’s outlook on the whole bunch though.
Additionally, even if they DO start at 9am and only 9am (they don’t, always), a substantial portion of people are not out of bed (or not prepared for company) at that time. If a house has the shades drawn, the lights out and the paper still sitting in the walkway (as our home did this weekend), then anyone knocking on the door without a phone call in advance shouldn’t be surprised at a less-than-flawlessly-polite reception. Basic logical skill and application of courtesy should counterindicate any attempt to contact the residents other than on business purposes. The FedEx guy can have a pass (along with other delivery people). Missionaries, friends and relatives may not. Those are strictly social calls, so persons unwilling to observe social conventions have no call to expect more than a basic “no, thank you” and a firmly closed door, if they get an answer at all.
I appreciate that some people are defensive about missionaries - but there are missionaries out there who are offensive, pushy, rude and otherwise obnoxious.
W.T.F.? Who said this? Did I say this? Did anyone in this thread even remotely imply this? CITE?
Look, Ace, I really, really don’t know what your problem is, but you should probably come to terms, one of these days, with the fact that there are people in the world with different beliefs than yours, and that in many parts of the world they have legal rights to pursue those beliefs, which may even include showing up at your doorstep.
If it really gets your knickers in such a twist, as someone in a child-ranting thread recently suggested, perhaps you should go live in a cave and be a hermit. Or move somewhere with state-sacntioned religious intolerance.
Admittedly, I started skeptical, but ‘the foot in the door while you were closing’ it has me feeling a little deja vu…
I have more experience with JWs than the others, and I’d be interested in your recollections of your discussions with them.
Look, dude. No need to get your knickers in a twist. Most believers say they have a personal relationship with god. I’d like to know why god hasn’t come to me for a personal relationship. That’s all. Kinda makes a heathen wonder if its a hygeine problem or what. What makes them so special that god approaches them?
As I said earlier…the knock on the door isn’t what the problem is. Nor is it a “tolerance” issue. I don’t give a flying fuck what people believe. I find it arrogant and obnoxious that their faith tells them they have to go to people’s private homes to spread the word. Which is sometimes disguised as “great news” (it ain’t) or somesuch. The fact that they have to recruit tells me there is no god, or he would have come to me himself with the newsflash. If they want to continue in their delusional world, fine by me. But don’t expect me to take time out of my day to play the game with you. Your time would be better spent waiting at the kingdom hall for people who are actually interested in what you have to say.
Well, how’s this to fuel the fire?
Maybe, just maybe, they tract to indeed sway people to attend their congregation. Lots of people tithe and if you go to church at all passing around the plate is pretty common. Mayhaps they’re trying to drum up cash for their Kingdom.
Now - 3…2…1…go!
shrug Believe me or don’t - it’s your decision. I’m inclined to chalk her up to an excess of desire to spread the Good Word. She certainly seemed to have a grim, but perky, determination to tell me the Word whether or not I was interested.
I also think she was the sort of person who doesn’t hear anything she doesn’t want to - which has nothing to do with her religious affiliation. Some people just have amazingly selective hearing and she struck me as one of those people. She couldn’t believe I wasn’t interested in the fact that There’s Not Enough Love In The World (a phrase she used with great frequency - I think it had something to do with this month’s topic in the Watchtower or something), so she assumed I was just as eager to hear about it as she was to tell me about it. A kind of willful blindness, if you see what I mean. It’s a common trait in fanatics of all stripes. You’ll never get my husband to understand that not everyone cares deeply and passionately about baseball in general and his team in particular.
She may also be the type of person who confuses “polite” with “interested” - also a common enough trait in people in general that crops up a lot when people are discussing topics nearest and dearest to their heart.
Did you just call me “dude”?
Listen, I don’t have my knickers in a twist (except that I’m not a dude). I just thought you were accusing theists of saying they are “better” than you because their god ignores you. Again, this is absurd. No god has personally appeared to them, either, so don’t be such a martyr! Everyone on this planet who believes in a God learned about that God from another person, not from a personal visit from said God! Jeebus!
And - you don’t have to give a flying fuck what other people believe, and you can find any of their tenets of faith as obnoxious as you choose (though I have no idea what you’re personally getting out of it, other than unrighteous indignation), but news flash no amount of that takes away their right to do it! You can complain until you’re blue in the face. Won’t change a damn thing.
So, I’m sayin’ - why bother? Why get yourself riled up over other peoples’ religious practices that you have no say in whatsover? Why not just say, if they come to your door, “No thanks, I’m not interested and I don’t want you to come here ever again.” And shut the door. Not slam. Not yell. Not get your blood pressure into the danger zone. Just act like an adult.
What, I am asking you again, is so difficult about that?
Some people just stopped by my house to spread the same message about the lack of love, the greed of our neighbors and the bird flu. Nice, friendly people, but they didn’t accept that A. I wasn’t interested, and B. I didn’t want to take their magazine the first time I said it. They didn’t leave until they told me that they don’t take money, and that they’re not looking to convert anyone. They just want to encourage people to read the scriptures. After that I just went ahead and took the magazines, and we said good bye.
I thought it was weird that they wouldn’t tell me who they were when I asked though. They just launched into that speech about what they stood for. This is only the second time JWs have stopped here, so I wasn’t sure who they were until one of them unrolled the magazines he was holding to give them to me (one of my roomates goes to a Baptist church that sends people here sometimes, so I thought they might be here for him at first).