I’m the Copy Chief at a major magazine, and on the cover of one of our first issues, the name of the star was spelled wrong.
Somehow, I didn’t get fired, but to this day I live in terror of another such screw-up.
This sounds very familiar to me. This is shyness and low self-esteem. I still have these problems, but I had them a lot worse when I was younger. I had this “deer in the headlights” look and brain freeze sometimes when people asked me for something. I still freeze up when people say, “Get that thing behind you on the shelf, will you?” because I never seem to be able to see where they are pointing and I can’t seem to see the thing they want, even if it’s right in front of me. I just get scared and nervous. I remember getting scolded and screamed at when I was a child because I couldn’t immediately figure out what they were pointing to, and you know? It takes a lot to get over that.
After a certain point, I got sick of feeling like crap, and somehow, it got better. I think some of this fades with age. Or at least it has (to an extent) with me.
Anyway, others here have given you excellent advice. You are not alone, and all the feelings you have, and the insecurities you feel are not at all unique.
One of my friends ever so kindly called me a “late bloomer” and it sounds like you are one too. I figured some of this stuff out (am still figuring it out) a lot later than other people. But the upside to my “problem” was (as it is with you) that I’d learned things and accomplished things that most people my age (and older) hadn’t. Don’t be so hard on yourself. The “minuses” that you amplify in your mind are more than compensated for by the “plusses”–the things that you’ve learned to do exceedingly well.
Monstro, you just reminded me of one time when I was setting up a PCR on a Campylobacter jejuni gene. We were trying to amplify an 11 kb-long gene, and the normal Taq polymerase just wasn’t cutting it, so my professor ordered some extra-special polymerase specially formulated for long amplifications. I remember that the amount we got was around 100 uL (that’s one-TENTH of a milliliter to you non-sciency folks) and that little tube cost a HUNDRED FRIGGIN’ DOLLARS.
So what did I do? I threw the polymerase into the master mix at the wrong time, and wasted all that money and all our time that day. I had to go home because my professor had gone to a meeting and there was nothing left for me to do. It took me a half hour to walk from my house to the lab, and I remember that walk the next morning as both the shortest and the longest half hour of my life. I was lucky enough to have a professor that was very understanding, and forgave me as soon as I explained to him what had happened.
That’s not even counting the time I was making blood agar plates and let the agar congeal before the plates had been poured, completely wasting the defibrinated sheep’s blood and all the money that had gone into shipping it, and letting our lab be without blood agar plates until we could get more. And then there was the time when I discovered that I hadn’t been letting my PCR reagents thaw out completely, and that I had wasted the past MONTH of work because of it. (no wonder the PCR never worked!)
I’m telling you all this because I want you to know that working in the sciences is very much a learning experience, even to people like you and me that have been doing it a while. You WILL screw up, you will make an ass of yourself, but you know what? Everyone else has and does, even the post-docs and the professors that have published three trillion papers and intimidate the hell out of you. They were once lab rats and told stupid jokes that irritated their professors, they broke glassware, they left valuable enzymes thawing on the bench when they went to lunch, and on and on. But isn’t this why we enter the field in the first place - to learn, through trial and error many times over, how stuff works? How WE work?
I’m really, really sorry you had a bad day, but I also want you to know that I look forward to your posts, even if you’ve never noticed me. I think you are a very bright person, and we need all the bright, funny women we can get in our too-often dull and boring field. So keep posting and making me smile and bringing back memories to me, dammit!
You made a mistake. It happens. You’re human. The good news is you owned up to it. Everyone makes mistakes.
Your co worker gave you a lecture. That’s expected. Even when my boss understands a mistake, she feels obligated to give the “don’t let it happen again” speech. It’s in the Uniform Code of Big Wig Behavior. As for his statement that he’d continue to look into it, I wouldn’t read too much into that. When smart people make mistakes, the first thing we do in my office is figure out if something is wrong with our processes. There’s always going to be human error, even when you work with bright people. So we try to put checks in place to minimize the risk of them occurring. That may be all he meant.
As for forgetting losing things, getting lost, etc., that sounds more absent minded than stupid. Are you sure you’re more absent minded than anyone else? Are you maybe just having a moment of selective memory? It’s so easy to think of everything you’ve ever done wrong when you’re feeling down. Plus, you only notice the time you lose track of something. You likely never know how often other people do the same thing.
Even on the *off chance * you may be more absent minded than most, it doesn’t mean you’re incompetent. Maybe you’re just under a lot of stress right now and that’s affecting you. Or maybe you just need a better organizational system. Or maybe you have so much to do right now that your short-term memory is overloaded. Or maybe those directions you can’t follow aren’t written clearly and you’re assuming it’s you being stupid rather than asking “could you clarify what you mean in step 3–it’s not making sense to me?” Or maybe, or maybe, or maybe…
Whatever it is, there are a thousand things you can do. Sit down once you’re clear headed and think of ways you can compensate for any absent mindedness you may have. You can start a new organizational system (like you, I used to write down hundreds of lists before it dawned on me that I can only be trusted to keep and check ONE master list), bring backup documentation with you to meetings so you don’t have to rely on your memory, make sure you understand the directions before starting a project etc. Just start with the assumption that you’re competent and can develop means of addressing any short comings, because you can.
There are incompetant people out there, but I highly doubt you’re one of them. You say you feel like a fraud. How likely is it that’s true? Really, what are the chances that you’ve successfully fooled all those people all your life? What is the probability that you’d be able to fake out everyone en route to your PhD? Even if you could, you’d have to be a genious of a con artist, not a blundering fool!
Everyone has been so kind. I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels down on themselves. Just knowing I’m not alone makes me feel better.
I have never considered the possibility that I’m suffering from anxiety. When I think of anxiety, I think of panic attacks and hyperventilation. But I suppose intense worrying and nervousness could fall under that too. I’m always worrying about things. I’ve stayed away from people because they make me stress out and worry.
yosemite, you are right. I am a late bloomer (except I haven’t really bloomed yet :)). I’ve always been young for my age, probably because of my timidity.
For some strange reason, this made me think of something that happened to me when I was little. I was in the third grade, and every day the kids would play kickball on the playground during recess. One day, one of the third grade teachers was reffing and beckoned me over to play (I guess I was looking lonesome standing there on the sideline). I ran over nervously but excitedly, thinking it would be cool to play. I thought I knew the rules. But when it was my turn to kick, I got scared. I kicked the ball and ran, in panic, towards third base. Everyone in the world seemed to be shouting at me that I was running the wrong way. But I kept running, even when they caught the ball–on to second and first. When I saw how angry everyone was, I kept running. Right off the field.
It seems like whenever I try new things, I end up embarrassing myself like that. So I keep doing what I know I can do, with the end result being that I don’t “grow up”.
You’re right. It does take a lot to get over that.
Zoe, thanks for the kissing lesson! You’d get a big laugh if you could see me just a few minutes ago, making out with my fist. If I ever become attracted to someone and summon up enough courage to ask them out (or let them ask me out, I guess), then I’ll practice some more.
I will let you know when I email a mod. You’re so sweet, and I just know that book is what I need to cheer me up!
These too.
About therapy…I’m one of those unfortunate souls who don’t have insurance. Partly because I can’t really afford it at the moment (moving down here was very expensive) and partly because I haven’t had time to comparison shop different policies. But I work at a university, and they have free counseling for employees. Maybe if things get bad, I’ll make an appointment.
Thanks for listening to me!
I’ll tell you one thing about incompetence. The really incompetent people don’t know they’re incompetent. They think they’re really, really good at whatever it is they suck at. The fact that you “know” you’re incompetent says to me that you’re not incompetent.
Also, go to a Dopefest. Seriously. Maybe you didn’t know this before this thread, but it should be clear by now: you’re a popular and respected poster. You don’t have to worry about making the people at the Dopefest like you. They already like you. And you think you’re socially maladapted? Honey, a Dopefest is like a convention for people like us! They’re all geeks and wierdos! Even the beautiful people. Check this picture out. That’s from the last SF Dopefest. See that incredibly hot girl on the right? And the incredibly hot guy next to her? That’s SolGrundy and Seadiver*. I spent half an hour talking to them about which character on Buffy: The Vampire Slayer we’d most like to have sex with. The incredibly hot girl in the red shirt is Lezlers. I met her through the boards, and we’re pretty good real-life friends now. And take it from me: she is such a nerd. Total poindexter. It’s embarassing, really. And lest you think I’m some uber-cool guy who’s slumming or something, this is me. The guy in the green shirt. If that guy can get through a Dopefest without people pointing and laughing, you should make out like gangbusters.
Go to a Dopefest. Have a good time. And the next time you’re thinking of going to a social event and you’re afraid of embarassing yourself, you can think “Hey, I had a really good time at that Dopefest. If I could do it once, I can do it again!”
[sub]Er… I think that’s Seadiver, at least. Apologies if you’re someone else.[/sub]
Those pictures made me smile, Miller. And you don’t look bad at all. Don’t be so hard on yourself! 
That’s it! Sometimes the late bloomers really make up for it later. Don’t stress. You’re not a freak. It’s going to be okay.
Man, that sounds familiar. I’ve had plenty of embarrassing and mortifying things like that in my past too.
It does. You learn that whenever you stick your neck out, you get it chopped off. It’s bad when you learn this as a kid, because it becomes a pattern. It takes a lot to get over it.
I am reminded of a small epiphany I had when I was about 25 years old. I was getting on the bus. The bus was half full (I think) and there were a lot of good spots near the back of the bus, and that was where I wanted to sit.
Slouched over all the seats were a few young men. Not exactly “thugs,” but the kind of arrogant young men that would have given me a hard time when I was a teenager. (I was a fat chick and got taunted sometimes.) They were sprawled over all the seats, hogging all of them, and it pissed me off that a few guys could take up so much room on a bus. But I was frozen for a moment by fear, because these were the kinds of boys who would have been really mean to me when I was younger. But I wasn’t “younger” anymore (not old, of course) and I was a few years older than them. So I just thought to myself, “Screw it.” I pointed my fat ass towards one of the seats that had a slacker sprawled across it and started to sit down. Amazingly enough, the young man quickly moved over, allowing me room. No problems. No crap from the guy. Just respect. It was amazing. I think that was one of the turning points in my life. I stopped being so afraid. I started to not give a damn quite so much. I started to get pissed off by my own fear.
I still have hang-ups, but it got better after I started to think, “Screw it” more and more. It helped take the pressure off.
Regarding the “late bloomer” thing and relationships: don’t worry about this too much. If a person really is attracted to you, they will not be an asshole about your inexperience. They’ll just be thrilled that you are attracted to them. It will work out for you. Not that the kissing lessons are a bad idea, of course. 
I should also add about the relationship thing: since you’re a late bloomer and on the timid side, it’s doubtful that you’ll start aggressively chasing after someone who is lukewarm about you. You’ll probably get involved with someone who has made their attraction to you obvious and they won’t give a shit about your inexeperience.
This is how I’ve always seen it happen, anyway. Just don’t worry about it. It will be fine.
Monstro, I probably know you better than anyone else in the world and I would not lie to you. You are not incompetent! Everyone goofs up once in a while. Some people let shit slide off their backs easier than other people, so you don’t ever see them crying about their foul-ups. That doesn’t mean they don’t fuck things up as much as the people who do stress out.
I have had plenty of dumbass moments in my life that afflict me with shame every time I think about them (a few have been deeply repressed). Most of them you’ve never heard about because I was so embarrassed I didn’t want to tell anyone. During stressful, low-self-esteem times I tend to withdraw into myself and hold it all in until the storm passes. That may give you the impression that I don’t screw up, but that it is a false impression.
You are not incompetent at all (in fact, you’re one of the smartest people I know), you just beat yourself up over things most people don’t dwell on for long. This self-inflicted scorn is probably causing you to make more mistakes than you would otherwise because your mind is distracted with negativity and anxiety. This would cause anyone to become absentminded. It also doesn’t help that you know you are obsessing over your human weaknesses in an unhealthy manner. It’s a problem that feeds upon itself. You try to tell yourself that you aren’t incompetent, but you don’t believe it. That is why it won’t matter if all the people on the internet(s) chime in to say monstro is normal. You won’t believe them because you don’t believe yourself.
Like someone else said, the only one who is keeping track of all your foibles is you. Everyone else is too worried about whether their deodorant is working or if they remembered to file that TPS report. No one notices if you fumble words or tell a joke that falls flat. And even if they do, it doesn’t keep them from liking you and enjoy being around you. It’s sad that you don’t seem to appreciate the honest to goodness truth: people love you. They always have. Your detractors are far outnumbered by your supporters, who simply adore your sense of humor, your low-maintenance lifestyle, your talent for drawing, your cleverness. But no matter how many times people express this to you, you don’t believe them. All you seem to believe is a handful of brats who called you retarded back in junior high. And they’re probably bagging groceries at the Shop Rite right now, while you have a frickin’ doctorate. The irony would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
You’ve gotten some great advice in this thread that I hope you’ll take to heart. I know it makes me feel better whenever I take charge of a bad situation. Maybe you do have a anxiety problem that could be alleviated medically. If you want help in figuring it all out, you know who you can call.
I hope this thread helps you feel better.
PS I assure you this incident will be forgotten before you know it. In fact, the post doc is probably suffering from anxiety as we speak, feeling guilty about any harsh words he might have said. If I were him I’d be impressed that you came forward like you did. Try to put thoughts of him tattling out of your mind. It’s not going to happen. Worse case scenarios rarely do. (Except at Georgia Tech )
PSS I’ve had my own horror stories about Taq polymerase. There must be something about PCR that causes short circuiting of the brain. We could probably start a thread called “Tell me about your PCR-related nightmares” and get three hundred responses.
The post-doc in the OP sounds like a total A-hole. He needs to get the hell over himself.
Amen to that. EVERYONE screws up in the lab at one time or another. If everyone at the biotech company where I work who had screwed up to that degree got fired for it…there wouldn’t be a single soul left in the place.
You want to hear my favorite lab screw up story? This happened at the Harvard Medical School affiliated Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, 1987 or so. A lab had just had a brand new ultracentrifuge rotor delivered. These things are designed to spin at 75,000 rpm or more and so are machined out of solid chunks of metal (titanium?). This particular one was worth about $40,000 or so. Anyway it was left in a hallway in the box it was delivered in. Only problem was cardboard boxes destined for the trash were routinely left in the hallway, so the cleaning staff threw it out (naturally…that was their job).
Some poor sap actually made a trip to the dump that night or the next day to try to find it, with no success. Tens of thousands of dollars of brand new equipment thrown in the garbage!
** Laughing Lagamorph’s** story made me remember one of my most shameful fuckups of all history.
Another girl and I went to a symposium to represent our veterinary school. We had a booth where we displayed animal bones and organs, so that the participants (college-age students) could look at the stuff we studied in vet school. These were nice specimens. We had a horse skull, a sheep heart preserved in plastic, femurs, mandibles, and other neat animal parts. I don’t know how much all these things cost, but because the specimens were actually prepared by the anatomist at school, the labor that had gone into their production was considerable. We’d ask the anatomist if we could borrow the specimens for the symposium and he graciously loaned them to us after we promised to take good care of them.
So guess what happened to the specimens? After the symposium ended, we boxed up the stuff and put it under the table for safe keeping. We planned to return for the specimens later that night, after dinner, so we wouldn’t have to lug around a big cumbersome box. So guess what we found when we returned? Nothing. The specimens were gone. We suspect that the cleaning crew came and threw the box away, thinking it was trash. In a fit a desperation, we ran down to the dumpster to see if we could find it. Needless to say, we did not. I felt as if I’d flushed a baby down the toilet.
One of the most dreaded moments of my life was having to tell the anatomy professor that we’d lost all his precious specimens. Every so often I have flashbacks of that day and it gives me the cramps.
Yep. That sounds exactly like me. I knew people who had panic attacks, and I didn’t have them. When I thought of anxiety, I thought of people who constantly seemed to need reassurance and ran around flailing their arms screaming the sky was falling. Which wasn’t me, either.
Intense worrying and nervousness describes my anxiety to a tee. I ruminate and ruminate and obsess on negative outcomes and mistakes from the past. Sometimes it seems like I just can’t shut my mind off. It’s just the ever-present dread of catastrophe. (I’ll be fired. I’ll be rejected. I’ll be laughed at. People will talk about me. All my options will be closed off from me because I’m such a freak, etc.) I grew up in a very unpredictable, negative environment. Started out a tabula rasa, taught that I was powerless and a lighting rod for others’ anger and silent rage. Good times. Good times…
I’m coming to realize how much anxiety - feeling it, trying to avoid it by never being in any position that would stir it up, making decisions in my life because of that - has been my constant companion for as long as I remember. It doesn’t really seem benign anymore, this nervousness and constant worry (heh. worrying sounds a lot like “whirring” which is the word I used to describe my constant ruminations!).
Monstro, hon, may I very respectfully suggest that if you refer to yourself in words like “I truly hate her”, that a short stint in therapy - like six sessions - is appropriate at this time.
Yeah, he sounds like a prima donna. Of course, he’s the first scientist ever to be one… If you buy that, call me right away- I’ve got a few bridges to sell you
I used to work as a system administrator in an astronomy department. While I was doing that, I came up with a theory- the unaccounted-for dark matter in the universe is actually made up of the egos of science professors (and maybe postdocs, after reading the OP). I am still trying to work out a few details, such as whether egos would be baryonic or non-baryonic, but I expect a Nobel Prize someday. You heard it first here
I wonder how you would have replied if the post-doc had of pitted the worker who screwed up his work day? I bet you would have “felt his pain”.
The OP said she got a stern lecture from the post-doc and a promise that he would “look into the problem”. Where’s the stick up his arse? Monsto knows she fucked up, indeed, she is fucked up about fucking up, but don’t let’s transfer her guilt onto the post-doc.
Monstro Despite what the above sounds like, I’m on your side. Have you worked at this place for long? Only every place I’ve ever worked at, I have fucked up big time at some point. Honestly, ask my wife. I can’t remember a job I have had where I didn’t go home at some point in absolute misery and tell my wife that I suck and I should quit before they sacked me. She always talked me into staying on and it always worked out for the best. I’m sure things will work out for you too.
I used to think that about anxiety too, but now I know that I have both generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder.
Here are some self tests that you might want to take:
They’re on the Paxil.com site, but appear to be the same as the tests the psychiatrist gave me in the office to see if I had these disorders.
You might not be able to get treatment now for anxiety, since you don’t have insurance, but I found it extremely helpful just knowing that what I have has a name, and that I’m not the only one dealing with it.
If it turns out that you have one of these disorders, do me a favor and do get treatment as soon as you can, OK? I suffered for many years with these, and now I really wish I’d gotten treatment earlier. It made a world of difference for me.
And the grinning idiot mugging over his shoulder is me. Today, I walked around for two hours under a threatening black cloud, wondering how I was going to support my family after I got fired. Y’see, earlier this week I brought home my laboratory notebook so that I could prepare for the week’s work: write the header information and the boilerplate for each method, etc. On Tuesday my house was burglarized – they got my new Powerbook, my wife’s cameras and jewelry, some cash, and a few other items. I didn’t get much done at work the next couple of days, and I forgot my backpack anyway. So it was only today that I realized that my pack was open and the notebook was missing. The notebook that contained the stability data for our million-doller Phase 3 drug trials, that contained release testing for lots we had prepared for an already-impatient partner. I can’t imagine why a burglar would take it, but after a frantic search of my labs and my office, I came to the inevitable conclusion. Deep despair and turmoil – those projects were our entire future, and a mistake like that could send the company under. My boss was due at 10:00, and I knew that I’d have to face the music.
Fortunately, I called my wife first, and she found it in my den.
Preach it sister!
Who knows what some of those jerks are doing now? I sometimes wonder about some of the people who gave me a hard time. I know that some of them are not doing well–perhaps have more disappointing or “difficult” lives than I’ve had. Not that I wish them ill (it’s been so many years, time to let it go), but, well, I guess there is some irony in the world, is there not?
Regarding how you judge yourself: One of my friends was talking about all the countries he’d been to, all the adventures he’d had, and I made a comment about “Wow. I’ve never been anywhere compared to you. I haven’t done anything.” My friend corrected me and said, “Listen–compared to most people I know, you’ve been to a lot of places.” What he meant by that was that he knew a lot of people who’d barely been a few miles from where they were born, but I’d been to more than a few places and was always ready for a road trip. His point was that there are so many people, with so many levels of experience, with different opportunities, and it’s folly to try to compare yourself with other people too much. It’s doubtful that you’re the worst. You’re probably not the best either, but who is? Precious few.
He also reminded me that when he was having all his “Adventures,” I was busy going to college, knew exactly what I wanted to do, and I was spending my days studying and creating artwork and working towards a goal. Sure, I was a shy geek, but I was accomplishing something that eventually really really would start to pay off. So I might have been a “late bloomer” in some things, but it wasn’t as if I was sitting around in a vacuum, doing nothing. I was busy. I had wonderful learning opportunities and different experiences. It certainly sounds like you’ve done exactly the same thing. Just you wait. It’ll pay off–more than you realize.
Beware: you’ll never convince some people that this is how it works. Some people see things through their own “value filter” (hell, I guess we all do) and if you don’t measure up to their idea of normal, or right, it doesn’t matter if you are the most accomplished genius and the most wonderful person in the world–it doesn’t matter. You will soon learn–if you haven’t learned already–to either ignore or pity these people. Just make sure that you aren’t one of these people, and stop being so hard on yourself.
Mostro - everyone here has been giving you some very good advice and suppot, and all I can do in that department is second it. Anyplace where I’ve worked for any stretch of time it would ultimately come down to “Been there, done that…”.
Like the time I made just a tiny little change on the main page of our site (this was for a portal, so it’s kinda important, yes?). I tested it on our backup system first, to make sure it was good - Hey, I’m not about to goof up like that! Gee, good thing I checked, it doesn’t work right - that front page looks awful.
Phone. What? Our front page has just gone down? Well, not exactly down but it looks awful?.. :smack: :smack: (Yup, you got it - I was logged in to the main server, not the backup as I thought… :smack: :smack: )
More importantly than offering my additional story and support, however: reading your description of yourself, and the various suggestions made by other posters as to what it may mean, I think it may be a really good idea for you to get checked for Attention Deficit and (possibly) Hyperactivity Disorder - ADD/ADHD.
Contrary to popular belief, many people with ADD are not hyperactive. They don’t get diagnosed nearly enough, either, because they’re quiet and they don’t disturb the teacher at school…
IANAD, but I have close relatives with AD(H)D. You sound like you could be one. If this is the case, it’s emminently treatable and finding out could change your life. Hie thee to a professional who can check this out!
Hang in there,
Dani
I thought the OP was talking about me. As I near age 50, I’m still fighting the scars left by my mother, who declared me a total idiot and never had a good word to say about me. If anything went wrong in the house, she would make it my fault. If I did the littlest thing wrong, she would blow it all out of proportion and talk about it for months. If I did anything good or right, it was a fluke and not that great anyway.
The weird part is I work at a job with a supervisor who is the exact same way (boy, do we repeat childhood patterns). I recently did 17 things and made one little mistake–I typed “shoe” instead of “shore” and of course spell check didn’t pick it up. What was the other thing she said about the 17 items? Right. When she does it now, I just totally blank out and walk away.
I’m very surprised to hear that QtM MD & Eve, two Dopers I highly respect, have similar problems. It’s not just ME?