I know an incompetent person and I truly hate her

The BBQ Pit
41

Guess what, monstro? Almost everyone is waiting for the day that they’re found out. The day that someone turns on them and says “hang on, what are you doing here, you fake? You’re not really qualified to do this!”

And everyone screws up at times. Sometimes we screw up big in a way that leaves us wondering what the hell were we thinking? In a way that makes us doubt our capabilities to do anything.

The real idiots are those who never have any doubts, are oblivious to their own weaknesses and mistakes, and never own up to anything. They are the ones that are really dangers to themselves and others. They are the ones who are so dumb that they don’t even have the wit to imagine that maybe they’re not truly on top of things.

So by having this bout of despair and feeling of inadequcy you’re really only displaying that you’re normal and not a dangerous idiot. In fact, you’re probably falling into the trap many otherwise intelligent and educated people succumb to. Not only are you’re overanalysing and thinking too much, you’re also afraid to let people see that sometimes you don’t know the answer. Why? Because then they would think even less of you, wouldn’t they?

You’re human. Sometimes you’ll mess up. Sometimes you don’t know everything and will have to admit ignorance. Stop trying to hide it! Learn to accept it, embrace it, admit it, learn from it, and move on. Otherwise life’s going to be a constant uphill battle you’re never going to win.

My advice isn’t probably what you want to hear. Go into work and let everyone know that it was you that messed up the delivery. There’s no need to grovel, put yourself down or make light of it. Just state the facts, don’t offer excuses. You made a mistake. You’ll be surprised the difference it makes. It’ll not prey on your mind half as much for a start. Everyone’s going to hear who’s was to blame anyway, but by hearing it from you they’ll respect you more. You’ll be that bit more human.

And if they think you’re a bit of a klutz or forgetful for having done it, who cares? It can’t be anything worse than what you think yourself and it’s better than them thinking you an idiot who tries to hide mistakes. So sometimes you’re a klutz and forgetful. Big deal. And maybe you aren’t among the smartest at work. So what? Doesn’t make you a bad person. Learn to accept it, embrace it, admit it, learn from it, and move on.

On another point; those in this thread who are trying to make the Post Doc the bad guy aren’t helping. Monstro screwed up, is at fault and the Post Doc has every right to be pissed off. Trying to make out he’s being unreasonable is avoiding the issue.

(And the truly insightful will have already spotted that all the above advice is something I’ve had to learn the hard way about myself. :slight_smile: )

42

No. Just for a month and a half. I’m the newbie lab manager in an ecology lab. The geneticist post-doc is actually an outsider in the lab, since he’s the only one who isn’t an ecologist.

I’m always hardest on myself when I start a new job. I guess it’s because I always confuse the know-nothingness inherent in being new with the know-nothingness of general incompetency. Maybe once I get used to my position and learn more things, I’ll feel better about myself.

I feel the same way!

yosemite, you’re right again. I’m always comparing myself to others. There’s a person who I work with right now who makes me uncomfortable sometimes. Not because she’s mean or anything, but because she’s so great. She’s traveled all over the world and she’s involved in every organization you can think of. She has really cool hobbies, and she can talk to anyone about anything without breaking a sweat. She has a million friends. Sometimes I can’t believe she’s just a year older than I am. If I could only be a tenth of what she is, it would be an improvement. But I need to stop comparing myself to her. It only stresses me out more.

You’re right. I hear everyone on this thread confessing to their self-doubt and it makes me feel better, but then a minute later I start thinking, “Obviously not everyone who has self-doubt has cause for it. But some people do. Guess which camp you belong in.” I’m going to try harder to believe, though.

You never told me about the lost specimen story. Ouch!

He actually isn’t. The reason why his anger was such a big deal is because the guy is normally non-emotional and non-communicative. He went from being a robot to being sweaty-faced and trembling. He normally ignores me, since I’m not involved in his project. But I have a feeling that’s going to change from now.

Zoe, I contacted TubaDiva. Thanks again!

43

I don’t know where this particular idea comes from, but it’s a wonderful thing to remember:

Never compare yourself to someone else, because you will always put your worst feature up against their best.

44

Sure. Those that have been paying attention will remember that I’m probably the biggest advocate of self-esteem on this board. I consider myself something of an expert on the subject, as i once had to pull myself out of a near suicidal slump. And today I’m so terrific I can hardly stand myself. :wink:

First off, remember that self-esteem != egotism. By building up your self-esteem you will not become a self-important boor.

Second, make self-esteem your #1 priority. Make it the major project of your life.

Next, stop all the negative self-talk. I’m sure you make comments to yourself in your own head like “I’m such a loser” and “Everyone hates me.” Become skilled at recognizing when you do this, and immediately replace those thoughts with something positive about yourself. It’s best if those thoughts are based in truth, but even a complimentary lie is better than a berating lie.

When you have a flood of negative thoughts, write down a list of reasons why it’s good to think this way, or evidence for. Give each reason a point value. Then write down a list of reasons to have a more positive outlook, and score those as well. Compare scores. (I know this sounds a little silly, but trust me when I say it works wonders.) Here’s an example:

Negative thought: “I can’t do anything right at work.”

Reasons for:

I screwed up yesterday (20)
I’m a big fraud (10)
If I keep getting down on myself, I will never disappoint myself (10)

Reasons against:

Most of the time, I don’t screw up (30)
Everyone feels like a fraud sometimes, I’m no worse than them (30)
I’m smart enough to learn from my mistakes (40)

Score: 40 for, 100 against.

Next come what I call the rituals. Cement those good feelings into your brain by doing real, concrete things. Look into a mirror, smile, and compliment yourself on how damn good looking you are. Dress up, even though you’re not going out. Do it just to look good for yourself. Because you deserve it. Buy yourself a little gift. Take a bubble bath. Clean your home even though you’re not expecting company. In short, treat yourself the way you’d treat the person you most admire in the world. Why do you deserve any less?

As others have said, find your areas of weakness and work on improving them. This is extremely empowering.

Lastly, realize that healthy self-esteem doesn’t happen overnight. It may be months or even years before you see real change. In fact, it will probably be a lifetime project. But that’s OK, it’s the most worthwhile project there is, and it’s extremely satisfying. And fun.

If you want to talk more, my e-mail address is nealtodd@comcast.net.

45

I feel just the same way as you do! Like I’m stupid, and always screwing up. I probably doesn’t help that I have a condescending boss. But, I’m the last one to understand simple concepts, and I’m terrible at math. I sometimes forget important details and wonder how I can be such an idiot.

This is only a suggestion, but perhaps you could look into getting tested to see if you have Attention Deficit Disorder. It turned out I had a milld case and I was quite surprised. My psychatrist prescribed me Dexedrine and it has helped me so much. I’m not perfect, but I make less mistakes and remember more now. See if your doc can give you a referral to a psychiatrist to see if you have any underlying problems that can be helped.

46

Can we say “perfectionist?” Sure we can. :slight_smile:

For most of my life I’ve been nearly obsessed with not only doing something well (anything, everything), but it also has to be elegant and look good and be all tied up in a big fancy bow, so to speak. It has to be PERFECT.

I remember my screwups in great detail. Sometimes my misdeeds come back to me just out of the blue . . . I’m still embarrassed about stuff I did when I was a child, even, and that was more time back than I like to think about. (Yeah, I feel bad sometimes just because I’ve had so much time to make so many mistakes.) I have amassed a monumental pile of great imperfection. Do memories of the good things I have accomplished ever come zinging out of the ozone to remind me of when I got it right? Of course not.

You can try so hard to make things perfect that you actually screw it up, just from the trying and the judgement calls as you strive to make it perfect. It also means little satisfaction from what you do accomplish because it’s not good enough. It’s never good enough for that inner critic. This is a miserable way to live.

One of the best pieces of advice I was given came from someone who watched me suffering over something and said to me, “You know, good enough IS good enough.”

He’s right. More often than not, good enough IS good enough, and what we do is more than sufficient for the day.

We all strive towards the ideal. Sometimes we hit the target and sometimes we fall short. But mostly it all gets done, in spite of how we judge ourselves. That by itself is a measure of accomplishment and you can see it once you get past the “God, I’m such a ______” (idiot, klutz, fuckup) place of judgementality. (Is that a word? It should be.)

So take a deep breath. Calm down. Let go. Remember, “good enough is good enough.” 'Cause more often than not, it is. And so are you.

Jenny
your humble TubaDiva

47

:rolleyes:

I bet you’d be wrong.

I’ve worked in labs like the one monstro does for the past 17 years. We use a lot of expensive reagents and materials in these labs…cutting edge science costs money. Naturally we try to minimize waste, use cheaper materials whenever possible, maximize the amount of information we get from each experiment.

But you know what? These are human beings doing these things. Experiments don’t work and the results are no good and need to be repeated. Expensive reagents expire, unused, and need to be thrown out because they won’t work anymore. Two or more experiments need to be done when one correctly designed one would have given all the needed information. All these things happen

every

single

day.

$400 dollars for what is essentially a drop of enzyme might sound like a lot to a layperson but in the overall scheme of a biotech research enterprise, or a good sized university lab it is a fairly normal cost of doing business.

What problem needs “looking into”? Mistake made, mistake admitted, move on. The Post-doc sounds like a pompous blowhard. The loss of his enzyme isn’t going to prevent him from curing cancer or whatever it is he’s working on. If he has any friends he can go to another lab and borrow some enzyme from them…it is a fairly common reagent.

48

You perfectly described my mother, until she was about 47. She finally saw a doctor. For the last 8 years, she’s been taking meds for ADD and depression. She is also in therapy to learn to deal with her really bad self-esteem. She’s doing so much better. She’s finally happy and comfortable (mostly) with who she is. Right now, they’re working on reaching her inner child - to try to cope with years of abuse. Her doctor thinks it’s the last step in helping her to become the person she really is. I can’t even begin to describe how wonderful it is to see my mom the way she is now.
You really should talk to your doctor. Even if you don’t need medication, therapy wont hurt you.

49

You’re so human monstro.

Somewhere in northern Canada is a 9000 square foot concentrator building on a mine site whose location was misplaced by 5 feet because I read a seven as a two. I was incapable of reading my own notes. I should have what surveyors call “closed” which means reversing the series of measurements to return to the origin or benchmark/hub which contolled the whole site. I was extremely busy however and made the extremely bad decision to not check my work that week.

Not until over a year later when were locating a exterior conveyor to take crushed ore from the crusher building to the concentrator building was the error discovered.

It took $25,000 of re-engineering fees to make changes to the concentrator layout to accept the ore. It also explained what was previously thought to be a screw up by the consulting engineers. The bed rock along one side of the building was mysteriously much deeper than anticipated requiring an an additional $200,000 in extra work.

I was devastated. I was three years into my career. I put in my resignation, effective date to be determined by my employer. There was only a few months left on the contract and it wouldn’t have been the best for the company to replace me for the short period.

Well, despite my resignation, I was offered a promotion at the end of the contract. Go figure.

Anyway, just to say that I understand how you feel, but also to add that a $400 screw up is not the end of the world.

50

monstro, I will be in touch with Tuba Diver! When you read the book, you might want to have something that you can underline or highlight handy. I keep going back to my copy.

Hey, I was laughing while I was trying to describe it. I had to go through the steps myself. Eventually my hand pushed me away and said, “You think you can just come back to me and take up where we left off after 47 years?” :eek:

My list of stupid things done on the job include misspelling my own name on a hallpass and therefore getting a student in trouble. And that doesn’t begin to scratch the surface.

When I first came to school in Nashville, I was so intimidated about being at Vanderbilt/Peabody that I ate all of my meals alone in a restaurant across the street. And I was so afraid of “new” things that I was 25 before I ever had the nerve to try ketchup.

Four years later I was bumming around Europe on my own and eating eel. Life can turn on a dime when you summon the courage to let go and do the things you are afraid of no matter what. As one book says, feel the fear and do it anyway. (The good news is that you get to start in small steps like ketchup.)

I will get that book in the mail to you as soon as I hear from Tuba Diver! Enjoy!

51

I blow through $400 worth of Taq (and Vent, and Tth) with about as much thought as a fart these days. That’s nothing. How anyone could be fired for spoiling something that your average biologist pours in a tube like water, I can’t understand. Trust me, the folks in your lab make mistakes at least as expensive once a week, on average, only they call those things “experiments”.

52

One of my classmates the other day asked how much time I’d spent studying for our midterm exam. I truthfully stated that I’d spent very little time studying. (Probably an hour, maybe two but only if you count time spent doing the take home portion of the midterm as studying for the in-class portion)

He had spent a lot of time studying and was not happy to hear that I’d spent so little. He seemed to feel that this was proof that I’m much smarter than him, or he was excessively worried about the test. While either theory is possible, the reality is likely that the amount of time he spent studying was appropriate for him and the amount of time I spent studying was appropriate for me.

I did have to laugh at a different classmate who claimed that she and a friend thought I was the only one in the class who understood the material. I’d be shocked if that were true. Although, even I the person who hates whiners and complainers, would be hard-pressed to say anything kind about the professor.

53

Yes, that’s been a big problem for me. Comparing myself and saying, “Well, they’re a year older than me.” Or, “But they’re three years younger than me and they’ve done all that?”

I still do it a little, but my friend’s advice helped me somewhat. Another thing that helped me was when people did it to me. I realized how embarrassing and stupid it was then. There was a coworker I had—a really cool lady, I just loved her—and she was Armenian and her English wasn’t perfect. She was just a typical middle-aged housewife type but was was a good seamstress (we worked at a fabric store) and everyone liked her. She had a good “vibe” about her. One day she said to me, “Oh, I wish I could do all the things you could do. You’re so talented and smart. I can’t do anything.” This appalled me. I quickly told her that she was wrong, that she was a good seamstress and hey—she’d learned this completely foreign language and spoke it pretty well and I only could speak one language and what was she talking about?

A few people have done this to me and each time it was someone that I really liked and admired and it appalled me that they’d say something so absurd. They had values that I could recognize, but they wouldn’t acknowledge. It made me so sad that they thought they were “less” than anyone else, simply because perhaps they didn’t have some skill or talent or external quality that didn’t matter nearly as much as what was in their heart.

So you’ve got to stop doing comparing yourself to other people. It wouldn’t surprise me if this girl you compare yourself to admires something about you, or just thinks you’re a really cool person, and she would be appalled and hurt that you felt uncomfortable around her because of her accomplishments. But even if she’s oblivious, and just regards you as another nice person at the office, the fact remains that you’ve obviously got a lot going for you and you’ve got nothing to be ashamed of.

A while back someone brought up the fact that sometimes other people are just bad at explaining things, or sometimes your (percieved bad) reaction is due to something on their side, not your own ineptitude. I think there is some truth in that.

Some people (not all, of course) give out “vibes” that make you nervous. Maybe they are insecure themselves, or impatient, or a prick, or whatever—whatever it is, it rubs off on you and makes you more nervous and more apt to screw up. I remember one time my sister and I went to a pottery workshop to learn a specific technique. It was at the potter’s studio. She was a “big name” and my sister (who was more interested in the technique) was the one that was really keen to go. I just went along to keep her company, and also because she (my sister) is legally blind and she might have needed some help. Anyway, this teacher sucked. She was really bad at explaining things. She probably was insecure and knew she wasn’t the best teacher, but whatever it was, she got really frustrated with my sister’s “klutziness” (blindness) and was kind of a bitch. My sister got more klutzy as a result.

I saw things from a dispassionate viewpoint, because I was just there to keep my sister company. My sister says that she didn’t notice what an inept bitch this teacher was being (because my sister was so immersed in trying to learn, and wanted to learn so bad), but she could tell that the teacher was mad at her and she (my sister) could tell she was more nervous as a result. If I hadn’t been there to observe things from a neutral perspective, I’m sure my sister would have come away thinking that she “screwed up,” and all the problems that she had were on her side. But the fact was, it was the teacher—not my sister—who was the screw up.

54

Here’s what you do. Send me an email, and I can send you the Taq plasmid and a protocol for making your own. Spend a week and synthesize $30,000 worth of it or so: it is now legal since Perkin-Elmer’s patent has expired. Store at -80 in glycerol and you should have enough to last you a decade. That way, you can waste your money on Pfx or Vent or Pfu or Herculase. Buying Taq is for chumps.

Second, it is usually understood by the biotech companies who synthesize this stuff that occasionally a box will be left around a loading dock for a week. They are pretty understanding about sending a new order if the old one has no activity left.

Which brings me to my final point: Taq is thermostable. I’d bet that even after lying around for a week or so, it has 90% of its activity anyway. The stuff that we synthesized 10 years ago has been in a auto-defrost freezer (bad) in a regular freezer box (worse) and still works fine…

As others have said, $400 (that hopefully is a shit-load of Taq because the stuff ain’t that special – I would understand $400 on Pfx some of the error-proof high fidelity high processivity stuff but original Taq is garbage cheap) is nothing. Beat yourself up when and if you fuck up royally – blowing out a Sorvall or wasting a week’s worth of work with a stupid pipetting mistake.

55

monstro, how long have I been at SDMB? Two years now. You would think I would know that her name is TubaDiva by now! I sent her a note apologizing. I have humiliated myself. But I’m going to miss having that quirky image of a woman going head first into her tuba. Never could figure out why. Now I understand. :smack:

Gloria should arrive this week to get you through those “It’s Election Day Forever in Florida Blues.”

56

Your profile says you’re a scientist. In the common perception, scientists are supposed to be unfailingly brilliant and never make mistakes. Could it be you are being harder on yourself than you deserve? I’m sure your colleagues make mistakes too.

Hell, even Steven Hawking had to recant some of the work he’d done. Turns out he made a mistake!

Hang in there.

57

monstro, my immediate thought on reading your OP was, “Would you marry me?” (Um, you are a woman, aren’t you? If not, well, there’s goes that hope.) I was impressed by everything you said. You have a Ph.D. and yet you’re so humble that you’re bothered by little things like setting a box aside and forgetting it. You’re so shy in social situation you have few friends and few dates, and you’re willing to admit it. I’m depressed to see that you live in Miami, so I’ll probably never get to meet you at a Dopefest.

Golly, I’m the one who tried twice to get a Ph.D. in two different areas and only made it to a master’s each time. I’m the one who says to myself, “If I’m so smart, why haven’t I accomplished more in my life?”. This is despite the fact that my parents never went to college and my grandparents never went to high school, and yet I have two master’s degrees. This is despite the fact that I regularly make about 70% more (adjusted for inflation) than my father did in his best year, and he had to work two jobs to do that. I’m the one who, despite having a reasonable number of friends, can’t get a date to save his life. I’m the one who’s exhausted all the time because I can’t organize my life well enough to get enough sleep.

My second thought was that you might have ADD, as has already been mentioned once. You should have that checked out. If someone wants to fire you over $400, there’s something seriously wrong. You surely make at least $20 an hour, right? So why should they be bothered by an amount that’s no more than two and a half days of your pay? I would also like to know why a Ph.D. is being paid to do what’s just a secretarial job. Why is signing for boxes and putting them away part of your job? How badly organized is your lab that they have a clerical job like that being done by a Ph.D.?

58

Yes, I’m a woman. But you wouldn’t want me, man. I can’t kiss. And you know that if I can’t kiss, I can’t do other things…like cook and clean house.

My twin sis lives in Maryland. And she’s a Doper. Maybe she could stand-in for me ;D

I wish I made that much (I’m close to it, though). But I never thought of it like that.

It’s actually a fun job, even if it is stressful. Yes, I do clerical stuff (answering phones, picking up deliveries, making copies) but I’m still doing science. I spend half my time out in the Everglades, catching fish and invertebrates. I get to fly around in helicopters, ride around in airboats, and hike into secluded places rife with alligators and wild hogs. And I also have supervisor duties (which I’m not used to yet). I get to be a jack-of-all trades and be as dirty as I want to be.

I purposefully chose NOT to do a post-doc because I didn’t think I was willing or capable of holding my own research project. Grad school’s supposed to break you down and then build you back up into a new person, but the latter process was incomplete for me. I graduated with everything intact except my self-confidence. This job provides a nice alternative to a post-doc, while still keeping me grounded in research (which I do enjoy). Now I’m starting to wonder if it’s what I’m supposed to be doing. Maybe I’m better off with someone standing over my shoulder, micromanaging me.

Don’t be humiliated! You made a sad girl smile!

The image that came to my mind was a scuba diver playing the tuba underwater :slight_smile:

I think I have believed the hype. I guess I keep thinking a Ph.D knows EVERYTHING and is good at EVERYTHING. And all of the Ph.Ds I know do a good job of perpetuating this myth.

If I had any incline of how you’d go about doing this, I would jump on it in a minute. But alas, I’m a grimy-handed ecologist who hasn’t touched an Eppendorfe since first year of grad school. I’m doing good enough remembering it’s “Taq” not “Tack”!

Post-doc already sent in the new order anyway. But it’s good to know that he could make his own, if he wanted to.

Just to update the situation…

I emailed the lab’s PI (my boss) about what happened, just to lay it all out (I’d rather he find out about it from me). He’s a nice guy but he has a temper supposedly (I haven’t seen it yet, but I’m new), and I may just catch hell. I’m prepared for whatever happens, I think. If I get fired, I can find another job. I’ll cry and be sad for awhile, but it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be.

Again, thanks for everyone’s suggestions and comments. I feel better now.

59

Uhh, a few caveats here:

Taq is thermostable, and doesn’t denature at high temperature; but it does degrade, with a half-life of about 2.5h at 95 deg. C. I’ve no idea what its half-life at ambient temp. in storage buffer is, but I wouldn’t use any enzyme that had been sitting around like that for a week, no matter how robust. Depending on the application, lot-to-lot and assay-to-assay consistency could be of prime importance, and if this is an academic lab, chances are people share the same tube and take aliquots for their own purposes. If they didn’t know the enzyme had been sitting around for that long, and something in their results looked funky, they might spend a week banging their heads into the wall trying to figure out what’s wrong; if they did know what happened, they’d be afraid of PCR voodoo and would undoubtably just buy some more. I only use taq for quantitative RT-PCR (I never clone with it, because the error rate is too high), be it fluorgenic real-time, or, for more difficult transcripts, standard qantitation using Southern blots (it’s hard to design TaqMan oligos that do a good job of multiplexing splice-variant templates). Either that or I use it to genotype, which doesn’t require quantitve results, but any kind of screwup in that diagnositc can ruin months of work downstream if you don’t catch it. If I don’t know that enzyme is high-quality and pure as the driven snow, I won’t touch it…and I’m quite certain if it did it would screw up my results somewhere down the line.

And I would NEVER store enzymes long-term in a frost-free freezer, nor would I ever be able to trust them if I had. There’s something to be said for commercial sources: They do all the QC/QA for you, and if there’s an issue with the reagents, it’s their ass, not yours, that’s on the line.

60

Now what I want to know is what you’re doing working as a lab supervisor. A lab supervisor should be someone with perhaps a bachelor’s degree in the subject that the lab works on, someone who knows the terminology of the field but who decided that they couldn’t cut it in grad school. By working at the lab they get to stay close to the field without having to do research themselves. The most important thing though is that they should be the sort of careful, thorough people who don’t regularly make clerical errors. Their job is to do the organizational work so the scientists, who are often very absent-minded, don’t have to worry about the picky detail in things not directly part of their own research.

You are not cut out for that sort of job. You should be a post-doc, and you should be eventually principal investigator or a college professor who occasionally does research. Is the job situation so bad in your field that Ph.D.'s are regularly being hired as lab supervisors? I think your lack of self-esteem has betrayed you here. Your modesty about your skills has allowed you to take a job that’s not suited to your skills at all. You’re a research person and not an organizational person.

You write:

> . . . I can’t do other things…like cook and clean house.

Great! We can live together in a messy house and eat out, since I can’t do them either.