I don’t get the cafe culture at all, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. It’s acceptable behavior to go to a cafe and sleep? I know people hang out at cafes for hours at a time while not buying anything, but taking a nap is OK? That doesn’t seem right to me.
I’m going to answer these just because they have nothing to do with the OP (which I still really really don’t want to think about, ugh).
It really depends. This particular one has a nice cushy couch. If, on occasion, I’m reading and just “happen” to fall asleep, I doubt anyone much would care. If, however, I went in there every morning at the same time purposely to sleep on their couch for the whole day, I suspect they might get annoyed after a while…
I was a regular there (damn it, I really liked that place despite the distance) and I always bought stuff, so it’s not like I was just leeching.
Basically, as with most things in life, if you don’t make an ass of yourself, people won’t treat you like one. Hell, at a bar that I used be a regular at, I could fall asleep pretty much anytime I like and they’d wait for closing time, wake me up, and then possibly even invite me out for a late-night dinner. And that was AFTER I vomited all over the floor the first time I went there. I apologized the next day, but still. shrug Just be cool and they generally will be too.
I didn’t go there with the intention of sleeping and changing my contacts; I was reading until I was just too tired and distracted and fell asleep for like 15 minutes. My contacts dried out and I went in the bathroom to re-freshen them. I don’t see why that’s so strange…
It’s not really an Arcata thing, but it might be a California thing…? Generally, cafes here are very lenient about what you’re allowed to do. They won’t bother you unless you’re being an extreme ass or bothering other patrons. And by “bothering”, I mean REALLY bothering. I had a friend once who’d basically hit on every woman of a certain race who entered, and it took more than a half dozen days of that before he got a friendly little talk from the staff. He cooled down, somewhat, after that, but he wasn’t banned or anything.
I used to work for Starbucks and part of the whole yuppie cafe philosophy is selling the “third place” – away from home and work – where people can buy some coffee and then just chill and relax for a while. You have to understand that aside from the morning-buzz lines (professionals who just need their daily hit), the cafes make a living by selling not coffee, but a coffee-sipping, laptop-wielding, stranger-chatting lifestyle.
In Arcata it’s more of a hippie/homeless/student/artiste vibe, not yuppie, but the general concept’s the same.
You think that’s weird? When I first met my racially-snobby friend from the above post, he asked to share my table. Of course he could – no biggie, right – but then within a minute, he started going off about his miserable day and all the “evil” women he’s ever dated. Within 10 minutes of us meeting, he then proceeded to show me pictures of all his ex-girlfriends. In the nude. In explicit sex positions. With his big laptop right against the window and visible to all.
What the hell.
And then… he invites me to spend the night in his van, which was parked outside. I was afraid for my life at this point but he absolutely INSISTED that I at least take a look. I peeked my head in… felt a bit safer at not having seen any body parts or chainsaws… but still hightailed it outta there ASAP.
Met him again a few more times after that and eventually gave him a chance. He turned out to be the strangest, weirdest, creepiest mofo I’ve ever met, but also the smartest, most honorable, most honest, most insightful man I’ve ever known. After I decided he wasn’t going to chop me up and eat me, he became one of the people I respect most in life. He’s a MIT grad and Army officer who, I think, has something like Asperger’s… he just doesn’t know what’s socially acceptable and what’s not (and coming from ME, you know how bad it must be).
Point is… cafes can certainly be interesting 
Can we invoke the pet-thread rule here and insist on pics?
So what happens when you follow sagely Dope advice? Lemme tell ya. This is another long post, so if you’re impatient, don’t bother! Don’t say I didn’t warn ya.
After reading through this thread, agonizing to hell and back over it and indulging in a metric shit-ton of mind-wracking self-examination, I made a decision. There were only two things I wanted from the relationship. Nothing more, nothing less. For one, I want a friendship. As in platonic.
But first, some background…
So I ended up emailing her (saying nothing more than hi, just to make sure the address worked) but never got a reply. My intention was to just drop her a polite, short, non-creepy note so she wouldn’t think I just up and disappeared, but even then, no luck… just silence. Oh well. I figured I still creeped her out. No matter; I’m so used to having girls react that way that it doesn’t even bother me anymore. I get on with my life, staying faaaaaaar away from the cafe and not seeing her since the OP.
Three weeks later, I finally feel comfortable enough to return (it’s one of my favorite places and I wasn’t about to give it up for some girl I hardly knew). She’s not there and I happily reclaim my comfort zone. Yesssssssssssssss! MY cafe! MY table! MINE!
Well.
Hers too.
Of course she suddenly shows up a few days later, when I’m already all re-settled in to my favorite little spot. By this point the infatuation has faded and I’m just surprised to see a familiar face. We chat for a while and she was so scared that she offended me or something (see, that’s why you never just disappear without a word!). I laugh and explain that no, I just had a huuuuuuge crush on her for while and needed space. The email got lost in her spam box, evidently.
I even show her this thread just to share a laugh.
“You’re cute. You’re so sweet,” she says in that how-do-I-reject-you-without-hurting-your-feelings voice that all women seem to magically acquire during puberty. Yeah, thanks, just in case I hadn’t been puppy-dogged enough quite yet. :rolleyes:
I hate being the nice guy. Well, whatever. At least it wasn’t awkward and I got my cafe back; that’s all I cared about.
But.
Again.
Of course.
We’re just chatting one night, and eventually we start talking about life and I whine to her about all my problems with college and such. She feels bad for me, takes off the locket around her neck and ties it around mine. For good luck, she says, because I need it more than she. I’m touched. She even invites me to join her and her friends at a bar afterward. “Are you asking me out?” I joke.
“Well, not really! We’re just going there to meet some friends and I thought you could come socialize with us.”
Hmm. Nonetheless.
An old, familiar feeling stirs.
I dismiss it.
I indulge it.
I dismiss it.
Whatever. Been there, done that; I’m not going to do that to myself again, especially not for the same girl.
I decide.
Just friends.
I show up at the bar and see her usual crowd, but she’s not there. I look around everywhere… until…
Jealousy. Its immediate, visceral pang is unmistakable even after years of absence. My girl, alone at the bar with another guy?!! What the fuck?!
Wait. What? Since when?
Just friends.
“Hi,” I play it cool. “Decided to show up after all. Let me grab a drink.”
Not a minute later, she and the other guy get up to move to the back, ostensibly to join their other friends. She pats me on the head before leaving.
You did not.
*I.
Am.
Not.
Your.
Fucking.
Pet.
Dog.
Fuck this!*
I closed my tab – after not even half a pint of beer – and got the hell back home.
Only to turn around the moment I arrive. “Just friends” or not, if he’s there, so am I!
I storm back into the bar… but fail to find them. I leave to go back to my car… only to see the two of them walking back alone.
No. Fucking. Way.
I’ve never felt so stupid.
She just felt sorry for me.
Fuck! I’ve never screamed so hard for so long while driving. Driving, that is, to yet another bar. A place without Jane.
I drink. I drink. I drink. All the other patrons are gone. The bartender, even, is singing along with the band as an imaginary audience cheers them on. I pick up a drumstick and start beating on random barroom objects. The music flows, and warps, and bends, and the world around us disappears, and Jane disappears, and all the bullshit in the world is banished and time itself gradually gives way to the magic. A crescendo, a silence, and in that moment of musicalcoholic clarity I finally understand something.
I’ve been a fucking bitch my whole worthless life.
Never. Again.
I go home, and holding that goddamned locket in my hand as I fall asleep, I make up my mind. I will get what I want.
And I did.
She kissed me today, hard, as I walked her home.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I read only the thread title.
Yes.
Wait - was “other guy” at the bar her husband and the father of her child, or is she leading on yet a third guy?
Why do you want this much drama in your life?
You did what? :smack:
And finally, you got a kiss from (last I checked the scorecard) a non-monogamous gal who already has a primary relationship. I hope it’s what you wanted; you didn’t seem comfortable with that earlier on.
There are probably dozens of guys. It’s a semi-open relationship with hubby, apparently.
I dunno. Usually the drama in my life is just me versus myself. It’s nice to have a different kind for once. I’m young. Stupid. And just ever so slightly impulsive. Heh.
And I really like her. shrug Works for me.
Yep. It’s all I want. Proof that there’s something there. I like this gal a lot, mainly for personality reasons, but I’m also not at all interested in non-exclusive relationships. Now I’ve got the mutual acknowledgment, and hopefully a friend to keep as well.
I like things that are imperfect, relationships included. Makes them seem more real.
Um, no shit dude.
Go get help. Seriously. You need to be in therapy.
And stop taking advice from random strangers on the internet (except the bit above about getting help).
Heh, oh man, you have no idea. 
Therapy rarely helps, by the way, aside from providing someone to rant to. Which is what the Internet does at much less cost.
I wonder if she’s reading this right now.
Let me preface this: I’m in an open relationship going on 16 years, all of my relationships have been open, I’ve got no prejudices against open relationships.
That said, from what you told us so far, this woman sounds like trouble. What particularly rings warning bells from me is that it very much seems like she’s giving you just enough attention to keep you panting after her. This is called cockteasing, and it’s all about stroking her ego at the expense of making you powerless.
I can’t stop you from being young and stupid, but I might remind you that being strung along can cause real, long term, emotional damage. It’s also a huge waste of time that could be better spent finding someone who does actually respond to you. Hell, it’s time you could spend doing anything that would fulfill you.
I strongly suspect that you’re going to pursue her regardless, since that’s what I did when I was young and stupid. So let me give you one piece of advice that I hope you’ll take with you: If she can’t ever manage to find time for you to be together, it doesn’t matter if she says/acts like she cares about you when you are together. Teases will keep telling you you’re important to them long after they’ve moved on, and will never man up and tell you that it’s over. It’s useless to try to make them.
Am I the only one that thinks we need a sticky on this forum? Something like: expect that when people post intricate dramas and ask for advice they are ALWAYS going to go off and do what they want anyway.
Anyway, good luck Reply. I mean that genuinely too. Hopefully you’ll get out the other side of this without causing too much hurt to yourself (or anyone else).
Didn’t mean to double-post but is there any such thing?! Delude yourself by all means, but don’t expect everyone else to go along with it.
My gut feeling tells me that the TC is disillusioned and that this whole saga is going to end horribly. I’m not saying this to take a jab at you, it’s just that I’ve BEEN there! You have one-itis, my man.
Best of luck to you, though, Reply. If you somehow get what you want out of this, more power to you.
ETA: Oh. The saga *is *over. Thank the lord.
Eh? What’s left to pursue? I don’t want anything more from her. It’s like people only ever hear half of what I say… though I can’t exactly blame 'em, given how much I rant.
But this is it. It’s done. I just wanted some form of (what I consider) proper closure, based on honesty and certainty, not more ambiguity.
It’s like this: Fool meets girl. Fool falls for girl. Fool gets sound advice to stay the fuck away and follows it. Fool decides enough time has passed for things to cool down and goes back. Fool realizes old spark is still there, but furthermore realizes it can never work. Fool seeks proof that he wasn’t just delusional the whole time, finds it, accepts the status quo and is able to live happily ever after.
Ideally, all I want is for this to be one of those “I liked you, maybe it was even mutual, but we both realized it would never work” friendships.
shrug I agree with you. That’s why I don’t live like that. That’s why I’m choosing not to get anymore involved in the situation beyond what I’ve already have. Hence the “Nothing more, nothing less.”
Though to be fair, I think it CAN work for certain people. Just not me. Hell, I debate this with her all the time – if she’s not getting all that she wants from hubby (and/or vice versa), why doesn’t she keep looking instead of settling for a greater number of less qualified individuals? Her answer? She tried. There’s no one like that out there and it’s a waste of time to keep looking. Life is short. She even uses a system of qualifications – “S.I.E.L.”, for sexual, intellectual, emotional, and loving compatibility. If a person gets 3/4, that’s apparently enough for her. I just called her out what it really is – L.I.E.S.
Naive, sappy individual that I am, I refuse to believe her… but it seems marriage and divorce statistics are certainly on her side, for one thing. Maybe monogamy is the problem, not the solution. I don’t know; that’s another thread altogether. I just don’t buy that myself (yet).
Actually, I do have an idea. A very good idea. I take it you’ve never done cognitive behavioral therapy, then?
Ranting on the internet is not a healthy alternative for mental health care, especially someone with your history of diagnosis. Not that I should even know all of that, except for the fact that you can’t help but share all the intimate details of your problems with complete strangers on the internet.
Seriously. Get some help.
I think you’re being a little to hard on him. In a way, posting on the Internet can be a good out. I mean, you’re basically anonymous and can retain some shred of dignity. Say he goes and tells his friends about this - he’d never hear the end of it, and neither would they! He’d discuss this shit into the ground and drive everyone in RL fucking crazy. I’d rather risk annoying some faceless people on some message board than bug my RL friends.
Also, the SDMB really isn’t a bad place to seek advice. Would I ever ask you guys here advice on gettin’ the ladies? Fuck no. But from what I’ve seen, the community never hesitates to dish out suggestions and offer guidance.