I Pit Islam

[Bridget_Burke]

@aldiboronti

Wow, so Winston shared the prejudices of his time and nation. I am utterly shocked. One would have expected him to have liberal 21st century views.

Winston famously had his finest hour during WW2. But examining his long career shows him less worthy of emulation. Even in his day, some of his beliefs were retrograde.

[watchwolf49]

@wolfpup

I admit, there’s a sad aspect to it, like having an argument about Wittgenstein with a cat, and feeling that you’ve won since the cat has no rebuttal.

Still, I thought it was amusing to dig up some of the less well-known facts about Winnie. The man had a masterful command of language and guided his nation through a horrific war, but he was also a creature of his era, his racism and bigotry established in his formative years of the early 20th century.

I read them and enjoyed … so there’s that at least …

[watchwolf49]

I guess since the OP has such a tough time even getting a date … the whole multiple wife thing probably doesn’t interest him …

[The_Stainless_Steel_Rat]

@iiandyiiii

DerekMichaels00, why are you content with being a bigot? Don’t you want to not be a bigoted person?

“…He’s a One-Trick Pony, but he turns that trick with pride…” -Paul Simon

[wolfpup]

@aldiboronti

Wow, so Winston shared the prejudices of his time and nation. I am utterly shocked. One would have expected him to have liberal 21st century views.

You mean precisely what I said in post #20? … :rolleyes:
The man had a masterful command of language and guided his nation through a horrific war, but he was also a creature of his era, his racism and bigotry established in his formative years of the early 20th century.

What should be shocking is that the values so much admired by our bigoted OP were moderately offensive even 100 years ago, but were still widely held. Today they are utterly reprehensible. Yet the fuckwit quotes them to us and believes them to be perfectly sensible.

@Stanislaus

In the interests of fighting ignorance, it’s probably worth pointing out that the Churchill quote above was explicitly in reference to non-lethal tear gas, as is clear from the expanded quote below …

… This post is something of a distraction from the scholarly disquisition of the OP, but it has its flaws too.

FTR, and at risk of further distraction, that’s not quite accurate. From your own quote, what Winnie actually said (emphasis mine) was “I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes … It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses …” I think it’s pretty clear what a “poison gas” is, but he allowed that non-lethal “lachrymatory gas” might also be used. Moreover, such gases, while nominally non-lethal, can cause potentially serious injuries and can even be fatal under some conditions.

In any case, one can drop the whole poison-gas thing and one is still left with marvelous references to “uncivilized tribes … Red Indians and black people of Australia compared to ‘a stronger race, a higher grade race’ – Indians (as in residents of India) ‘a beastly people with a beastly religion’ – Palestinians as barbaric hordes who eat camel dung – a grudging admiration for Hitler and a belief that ‘the Aryan stock is bound to triumph’.” At his racist worst, Winnie was almost as much of a charmer as our very own OP who likes to quote him at his worst.

[Novelty_Bobble]

@elbows

Does it bother you even a titch that the largest Muslim nation (by population) is actually moderate and practices none of those extremist things you listed?

If you mean Indonesia then it is worth giving this a read lest we give the impression that it is some kind of free-religion utopia. By the low standards of many muslim majority nations it is better, but by no means on a par with more secular western nations and worryingly it is suggested that religious intolerance is getting worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Indonesia

[QuickSilver]

DM - Fuck off to Breitbart and StormFront, you poisonous little troll.

[Superdude]

@The_Stainless_Steel_Rat

“…He’s a One-Trick Pony, but he turns that trick with pride…” -Paul Simon

“You got one good trick and you’re hanging on…to it.” -Ben Folds

@DerekMichaels00

<snip> Even for as bad as your experience may have been, don’t project your experience onto the rest of the world and society.</snip>

Perhaps you should take your own advice…

[SteveG1]

@DerekMichaels00

right, because people are marauding the US and the world blowing themselves up in places shouting a Christian equivalent of “allahu akbar.” Because our government needs to spend billions to prevent it. Uh huh. Even for as bad as your experience may have been, don’t project your experience onto the rest of the world and society.

The majority of terrorist and maniacs we’ve had so far, are white “Christian” types… dumb ass inbred rednecks. Often wearing sheets.

Somebody check that for me and verify please.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@DerekMichaels00

right, because people are marauding the US and the world blowing themselves up in places shouting a Christian equivalent of “allahu akbar.” Because our government needs to spend billions to prevent it. Uh huh. Even for as bad as your experience may have been, don’t project your experience onto the rest of the world and society.

How much damage can radical Islamic extremists really do? Yes, when they drive a truck through a crowd or blow themselves up at the goddamn Sbarro, they create a grisly, horrific scene of death and suffering. But how often does something like that happen? A handful of times a year? Resulting in, what, 100 deaths a pop, tops?

Evangelical Christians threaten to force the US government to ignore the threat posed by climate change, the end result of which is potentially killing us all. That’s not an exaggeration. Even if the worst case scenarios do not come to pass, the results of inaction will result in millions, maybe tens or hundreds of millions of deaths, global mayhem and costs in the trillions. That is not an exaggeration.

I am not saying that you are pitting nothing whatsoever, but then again, no, I am not projecting jack shit. You need to pull your head out of your ass.

[Lydia_Phalfav]

So you’re dead either way by global warming or a death cult trying to bring about a global caliphate…

So what does it matter to atheists who believe there’s nothing after death anyway?

[Human_Action]

@DerekMichaels00

I pit this religion of Islam. Why? Because in human rights, women’s rights, LGB rights, etc. rankings, the bottoms of the lists are majority populated by Muslim majority countries.

I pit Islam because of all religion-inspired terrorisms of the world, Islamic terrorism is the most common and widespread, causing governments on every inhabited continent to spend billions of dollars and thousands of man/hours. I’ll never forget September 11, Madrid, London, Paris, Chattanooga, Fort Hood, Orlando, Israel, Mumbai, Theo Van Gogh and the many incidents occurred on account of Muslim jihad.

I pit Islam because virtually all countries in which the State amputates body parts as criminal punishment are Muslim majority countries.

I pit Islam because the supermajority of countries in which FGM is commonly practiced, are Muslim majority countries.

I pit Islam because its the inspiration for honor killings, and oppressive clothing like the hijab, niqab, burka, all meant to mark women as property.

It sounds like you’re pitting (primarily) Middle Eastern legal and cultural practices, and attributing these practices to a global religion of 1.6 billion adherents, 80% of whom live outside the Middle East and North Africa.

The equivalent would be pitting Judaism because of Likud, or the King David Hotel bombing. Or, pitting Christianity because of American warmongering or Jim Crow. One presumes you would object to this.

[Chefguy]

@Superdude

“You got one good trick and you’re hanging on…to it.” -Ben Folds

Perhaps you should take your own advice…

As a trick, it ranks right up there with “pull my finger”.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It’s not the religion, but the ultra-conservative policies which are at issue. Far right intolerance is a problem in many faiths, and in many people with no faith at all. Extremism of any kind brings with it cultural and legal idiocy.

Pick on one religion or religion itself and suggest its removal will be a panacea, and you clearly don’t understand humanity at all. A good 20-40 percent of us are utterly stupid barbarians clamoring for more brutal capital punishments, severe authoritarian dictatorships, removal of rights and the legalization and encouragement of turning minorities into noncitizens and nonpersons with no dignities. And they can be on any political extreme and found in most religions and without a religion. Take away the book, and you’ll still have the same politics and the same stupidity.

Getting rid of a bad idea which is a certain religion is great, until you find out the same traditions, customs, legal practices, racist ideas, minority bullying, misogyny, and so forth, continues on regardless. Treating the symptom of that ignorance, in the form of attacking the chosen religion, does nothing to remove the actual cancer, which is still ignorant extremism.

[MonkeyMensch]

@wolfpup

Now I’ma gonna clear something up for you, too, you ignorant racist fuckwit. Get old Winnie drunk enough and you’d have gotten along fine, sharing racist anecdotes in the Old Boys’ Club (whites only) …

“I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes.”
– Winston Churchill, writing as president of the Air Council, 1919

“It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King.”
– Commenting on Gandhi’s meeting with the Viceroy of India, 1931

“I do not admit… that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia… by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race… has come in and taken its place.”
– Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

“One may dislike Hitler’s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.”
– From his Great Contemporaries, 1937
“I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.”

Palestinians: “barbaric hordes who ate little but camel dung.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/… as an MP he demanded a rolling programme of more conquests, based on his belief that “the Aryan stock is bound to triumph”. There seems to have been an odd cognitive dissonance in his view of the “natives”. In some of his private correspondence, he appears to really believe they are helpless children who will “willingly, naturally, gratefully include themselves within the golden circle of an ancient crown”.

But when they defied this script, Churchill demanded they be crushed with extreme force. As Colonial Secretary in the 1920s, he unleashed the notorious Black and Tan thugs on Ireland’s Catholic civilians, and when the Kurds rebelled against British rule, he said: “I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes…[It] would spread a lively terror.”
The dark side of Winston Churchill | The Independent | The Independent

Oh, these are much better than the typical, “…But in the morning I’ll be sober” sort of tidbits you normally get. Nice work.

[Novelty_Bobble]

@Lydia_Phalfav

So what does it matter to atheists who believe there’s nothing after death anyway?

That’s an idiotic thing to say.

If atheists believe this is the only existence we ever have then they are going to value life *more *not less.
The religious who believe in life after death could logically say it doesn’t matter if all existence is wiped out and I seem to recall that the Abrahamic god had a bit of a thing for genocide.

[Chimera]

Troll feeding thread.

Net value = 0

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Larry_Borgia

Thankfully we have people like Peter Dinklage and Jason Acuña to remind us of the awesomeness that our shorter brethren can achieve

You forgot Tony Cox, you racist.

[marshmallow]

OP, you may find this SCC article useful to understanding some of the responses you’re getting. I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup. It’s long, but here’s a relevant portion:

You can talk all you want about Islamophobia, but my friend’s “intelligent, reasoned, and thoughtful people” – her name for the Blue Tribe – can’t get together enough energy to really hate Osama, let alone Muslims in general. We understand that what he did was bad, but it didn’t anger us personally. When he died, we were able to very rationally apply our better nature and our Far Mode beliefs about how it’s never right to be happy about anyone else’s death.

On the other hand, that same group absolutely loathed Thatcher. Most of us (though not all) can agree, if the question is posed explicitly, that Osama was a worse person than Thatcher. But in terms of actual gut feeling? Osama provokes a snap judgment of “flawed human being”, Thatcher a snap judgment of “scum”.

I started this essay by pointing out that, despite what geographical and cultural distance would suggest, the Nazis’ outgroup was not the vastly different Japanese, but the almost-identical German Jews.

And my hypothesis, stated plainly, is that if you’re part of the Blue Tribe, then your outgroup isn’t al-Qaeda, or Muslims, or blacks, or gays, or transpeople, or Jews, or atheists – it’s the Red Tribe.

[iiandyiiii]

@marshmallow

OP, you may find this SCC article useful to understanding some of the responses you’re getting. I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup. It’s long, but here’s a relevant portion:

The OP is being criticized for open and unrepentant bigotry, not for being conservative.