I really don’t give a shit if he reads my post or not. He’s an annoying asshole and I just needed to vent.
I’m fine with Marty having this hidden.
Things get messy when a pittee barges in and defensively starts calling everyone else names. Often their posts “defending” themselves only proves the OP right…
Feature or bug?
[Moderating]
Let’s not, please. Martin knows this thread is here, and can unblock it if he wants to. Posters aren’t required to read Pit threads about them, and creating multiple Pit threads to get around Discourse’s blocking feature would be harassment.
No personal sanction intended here, Sunny. It’s a novel situation with the new board software, and I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify the rules around it.
[/Moderating]
That’s fair. Thank you for the clarification.
As I posted earlier, Martin Hyde is not a genocide denier. He acknowledges that genocide against indigenous peoples in North America took place. He just thinks that they did not go far enough, and that we should finish the job.
He’s a repugnant asshole.
It has occured to me that he may be so indignant about being accused of supporting cultural genocide because he may be genuinely opposed to some of the means that were used. He may be actually opposed to kidnapping and raping children, and not understand – or be refusing to understand – that it isn’t only the means people are objecting to, but the goals. He appears to be fine with killing the culture, and to think that’s a good idea; and I’m not at all sure that he understands that that’s what he’s being accused of. He’s not just saying that he thinks people are wrong for saying that trying to kill the culture is bad; he’s saying that people are lying about him for criticizing him for that.
I do think that requires a significant degree of willful ignorance.
I don’t particularly mind him not participating in the thread, tbh; it saves me the trouble of scrolling past his word vomitus.
Agree. Most of this thread is people hysterically misinterpreting Martin Hyde’s perfectly reasonable statements, and I say that as someone who is generally in agreement with them on most issues. It’s not remotely reasonable to accuse him of “denying genocide” for providing some factual context to the discussion.
Unlike most of the worthless butt nuggets (thinking Shodan, Hurricane Shithead, Sam Stone) who often get held up as examples of the “intelligent, reasonable conservatives” that the board is driving away by being “woke”, Martin actually seems to fit that description.
Having said that, some of his comments about other posters toward the end of the thread, particularly the ones to/about Sunny Daze, are simply indefensible, and I think he was extremely fortunate to get away with only a Warning for that.
Kind of hard to misinterpret MH’s that it’s a shame what happened but now that it’s done we should finish the job of ‘integrating’ them and their land. It’s the line taken up by the American Conservative article going around, and it’s truly disgusting.
That’s just right out monstrous. It’s not hysterical to point that out. Not at all.
I’ll grant you Sam, but has anyone ever held up Shodan or Hurrican Shithead as an example of an “intelligent, reasonable conservative”?
It was a long thread, and perhaps I missed something. Could you point out where he said that?
OK, that did take a little longer than I expected, but here’s one.
Well, it’s spread out over several threads, but there are a few that stood out:
and
That basically says what was claimed - “let’s toss money at the problem and finish the job of getting them educated and off reservations and they’ll be better off that way. We’d be the good guys for doing it”
Also, it doesn’t take much searching above in this thread alone, but the rather lengthy defense of the Nazis sterilizing some and killing others (including Jews) was not only only factually incorrect but monstrous in itself and totally beyond the pale.
Note that I am not claiming he sides with the Nazis but this is the sort of behavior you are claiming is somewhat acceptable when compared to the total trolls - finding a kernel of corn in a pile of shit and claiming people should be glad MH at least offers corn.
Making some kind of narrow, technically correct claim about the Nazis (that wasn’t even narrowly, technically correct anyway) as evidence that the boards liberals are shrill, irrational scolds is not itself an example of rational, non-shrill behavior.
I’d also like to point out that it eventually became more of an issue of responding in kind. He’d get all hysterical and misinterpreting other’s posts, accusing them of lying for simply not agreeing with him, or for misrepresenting his “perfectly reasonable” statements by putting them into context.
For instance, when he responded to what another poster had said while responding to my post, and I pointed out that I was not the one who said those words, he went into a rage and tiraded about how much he just came here to slap sheep, not to engage in productive discussion, that he’s already prejudged those on this board to be beneath his contempt. He’s just a small hateful creature, and those who are currently defending him will one day step afoul of his temper, and see that they don’t gain any points in his ledger for pointing out his “perfectly reasonable” statements.
So, go ahead and pick out the nuggets of corn from his fetid pile of verbal diarrhea, just as he makes “perfectly reasonable” statements of the benefits of the attempts of genocide upon the indigenous peoples.
That’s… interesting. I know Shodan got a lot of kudos for his posts in non-political threads, so at first that’s where I thought Roo would be going. Then she gets into how she misses ‘both sides’ being represented, so it’s almost as though she thinks Shodan was a worthwhile contributor in political threads. She doesn’t quite say it, but she says enough to let one connect the dots. So yeah, I’ll give you this round. Well played.
And that was one of at least three threads in ATMB and the Pit about Shodan’s banning, with most posters being opposed to the ban. However, on review I saw that almost all those posters were objecting to perceived arbitrary and/or biased moderation, with only H & R actually arguing that Shodan’s posts had value. So I’ll call that a draw.
OK, that first quote is worse than anything I’d noticed him saying and is completely disgusting. If I had read that, I would have come to this thread in a much less charitable frame of mind.
The second one looks like he’s just saying that Natives shouldn’t be forced to stay on reservations if they don’t want to. I’ll take your word that in context he was arguing for shutting down the reservations entirely.
The last bit really demonstrates what I disliked about this thread. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to say that him offering factual information (even if he was wrong) constitutes “defending the Nazis”. Nobody realistically is going to find out that the ratio of Jews to Gentiles victimized by forced sterilization in the 30s was somewhat different than they thought it was and conclude “Hey, the Nazis weren’t so bad after all!” I think having an accurate picture of historical facts is intrinsically valuable.
No doubt he was losing his shit and name-calling by the time he flounced from the thread, but so were a lot of other people. I do think his attack on Sunny Daze went much further over the line than anyone else did.
To the extent that I am defending him I am doing so because I believe it is the correct position, not because I have the slightest interest in gaining “points in his ledger”.
There are several tens of million Americans who believe conspiracy theories about the last Presidential election and what occurred in DC on Jan 6, no small fraction of whom think the Nazis weren’t so bad (“some very fine people” indeed) and absolutely would conclude the same.
We must be careful that in our zeal for accuracy and ‘fairness’ we aren’t tipping the scale too far the other way. And MH tips those scales deliberately and scorns anybody who points it out.