Gah! What a disgusting slimeball this Tom guy is! “The sight of scar tissue” made him feel “sick”?!? Well, fuckin’ waaahhh!
You’re a good friend, and a good guy, Spogga. It’s great that Anne knows that she can ask for anything if she needs it, but a lot of people don’t know how to use that kind of open-ended offer. Perhaps you (and some other friends, if they want) could make more specific offers of support? Maybe call Anne and ask if she and the kids would like to join you for lunch at a family-oriented restaurant, or such? I know, here on my side of the ocean, what kind of place I’m talking about, but don’t know what’s available over there. Over here we have places like “Chuck E. Cheese” which is a pizza place that also has a large play area for the kids (video games and such for the older ones). If you invited her to a place like this, the kids would be provided pleasand diversions, while she would have an opportunity to talk to you, cry onn your shoulder should she need it, etc.
HIS pain? The guy is a slimeball. He deserves no sympathy from anyone. All he’s done is cause more pain for his wife and kids when they were already going through enough as it was. What a selfish prick. I can’t even think of a punishment that would be suitable for this asshole.
Until spogga’s last post, I was thinking that there’s GOT to be some additional detail that prompted your ex-friend’s behavior; that perhaps there was something else that needed to be understood to know the real reason behind his actions.
We have a family member who stuck it out, but told my SIL that she better “just get the FUCK over it. Big deal, so you lost your little titty. Quit crying and blah, blah, blah.” Asshole. She hardly mourned her loss, and still talks about it like she had a tooth pulled. It just seems to me that the pain and sense of loss would be much more intense – I don’t care how “ok” you are with your body image.
Your friend is a jerk, but he may come to his senses. I’d give it a little time before you all kill him. But if he remains jerky, swoop in and rescue his wife. She needs to know she’s not a monster.
spogga, is this out of character for Tom, or has he always been kind of a fuckup and everybody’s been putting up with it until now? After 20 years and 2 kids, it seems weird that he’d cave like this all the sudden.
I expect that in this situation there is plenty of pain to go around. (and on this board, plenty of judgement to go around also)
Which would be better, to completely isolate the guy or to remain his friend and support him and possibly help him to get past whatever the problem is and possibly recouncile with the wife. He’s got pain, of that I am sure.
Of course it is easier and feels better to be all angry and self-righteous, if that’s the way you want to go. There’s plenty of justification.
When I first started reading the thread, I was going to ask if you were sure his problem was with the superficial fact of her being breastless, or whether it was actually a deeper inability to cope with the fact of her having cancer and possibly dying. Neither is very admirable, but the latter is certainly more understandable.
Now that I know it is all about the tits…what a fucking asshole. I’m SO glad that the whole community has shunned him! Let them continue! This guy doesn’t deserve to have a single friend remaining.
Where is his family? How are they treating it?
And let me second the comment about offering Anne more specific help. It’s hard for people to ask, much easier to accept specific things.
If she’s in treatment for cancer, there are lots of ways you could help. If she’s healthy, then social support is what she needs.
Are we sure this guy dosen’t have some other reason, like he’s secretly gay or something? I just can’t imagine leaving my wife and kids becuase of breasts. I mean, they’re nice and all but hardly the centerpiece of a marriage. I suspect there’s more to the story or you really have found a good example of earth scum.
I thought about this, too. Even if it’s true that he was just looking for an excuse to bail, he’s still scum. I mean, look for an excuse, sure. You can leave her cuz her family’s nuts, or because she can never be on time for anything, or whatever. But, jeez, leave when she most needs support, and the last thing she needs is another source of stress? No matter how you slice it, the guy’s a world-class meatpickle.
I agree. He seems like a monster at this point, but some people, especially men aren’t able to cope with this kind of thing. It’s all well and good to call him a selfish bastard and write him off, but would be healthier for his wife, if his friends would try and help him. For some men, when something awful happens to their wife, whether it’s a horrible accident, surgery or something like rape, the man has no resources to cope with it. He actually feels responsible for somehow not protecting her. Impotent. Helpless. Angry. She could die. He’s not capable of expressing his fears about any of this. What he says is not really what he feels. He’s distancing himself emotionally. He is not rational right now, but that doesn’t mean there’s no hope for him. Granted she’s the one who really should be the focus of unconditional love and care, but she will be better off if he heals what is torturing him too. As his friend, you should know if this behaviour is out of character for him.
I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but unless he can come to terms with this, she’ll always carry some of the pain of his rejecting her. Swallow your righteous indignation and help both of your friends.
I’ll third that - if you just say ‘call me if you need something’ it probably won’t happen. Here’s some specific things that could need doing:
If she’s getting chemo treatments, offer to drive her to the hospital and back if you can, or make arrangements for someone else to do it. She won’t be able to drive herself.
She also won’t be feeling well, so bringing some food over for her and the kids would probably be very welcome.
If she needs to stay at the hospital, offer to have the kids stay with you.
Get a cleaning service to come in, or offer to clean a room or two yourself. Chemo tends to make people very, very tired and it can be really difficult to do the things you are used to doing.
I’m sure other things that need doing will present themselves as time goes on.
First I don’t think Tom is gay, in fact I’m certain of it judging by the way he looks at and admires the female form.
Second. As far as any of us know Anne is not receiving any form of treatment or counselling. The lady is a pretty strong person and apart from Tom baling out on her appears to be bearing up quite well.
Third. This behaviour is totally out of character, we can’t understand what Tom is playing at. There is no other woman involved so far as we know. If there was Anne says she could handle that situation far better than having her husband just bale out on her because of a few scars.
Fourth. Tom’s family are as shocked as we are, Gerald, his dad, has done his best to persuade Tom to at least hang in there for a while longer.
Fifth. We have decided that in a few weeks time we will take Anne and the kids for Sunday lunch at a really decent place close by, knowing the kids they would prefer a big Mac and fries but that just aint gonna happen.
Last but by no means least I thank you all for taking the time and trouble in reading this and offering the good [and bad] advice.
I can certainly understand how it is difficult for Tom, dealing with his wife’s mastectomy. An aunt of mine (sadly no longer alive) had a mastectomy as well, and her husband found it very difficult to cope with. He had trouble to learn to appreciate his wife again, in the physical sense. It can be a very intrusive procedure, visually, and guys just happen to be very visual when it comes to sex.
But of course, Tom’s difficulty of seeing his wife with a scar where once a breast was completely pales to Anne’s difficulties in coping with a body she can no longer trust, and she may no longer find attractive. It’s NOT about Tom - Tom’s role should be to support Anne in any possible way he can.
I can see how he’d turn to one of his mates one night in the pub, and tell them how difficult he found it to see his wife like that. That’s what friends are for, to talk to about all things, including these. Including feelings you’re actually ashamed of. And I’m sure had he done that in time, his friends would have been supportive, as long as he in turn was supportive to his wife.
But he chose to get up and run away. From what he thinks is a problem, but which is actually the solution.
I don’t blame spogga and his mates one bit for the stance they’ve taken towards Tom.
Ah, the sweet smell of righteous indignation. I gotta grab me some of that. Hold this creep down while I kick him, wouldja?
…Seriously, how about if those who’ve been in this guy’s shoes, whose initial reaction was to do what he has done, and who then handled it better than he has, be the only ones to presume to comment? There’s nothing like watching someone fuck up in the teeth of a situation you’ve never had to handle to give you a nice comfy seat on the moral high ground.
I hope my wife never needs a mastectomy. I hope I wouldn’t find the disfigurement terrible if she did. I hope I would be loyal enough to put my reaction to one side if I did find it terrible. But, if I couldn’t and then stuck around and did the right thing anyway, then it would be time enough for me to feel in a position to throw stones at the OP’s mate.
She looks broken. He can’t bear it. He’s panicked and run. In my heart of hearts, I have to feel it would be terribly easy to react the same way. Of course, what he needs right now is to be publicly shamed and ostracised. That’ll help no end. :rolleyes:
Malacandra, I can certainly see your point, but I still think the guy’s handled it all wrong. Is it wrong for him to be “sickened” by the sight of the scar tissue? No, feelings are never right or wrong, only how we react to them. When I first started reading this thread, it got to me so much that I actually asked my husband about this whole issue. It’s not inconceivable that I may need this kind of surgery some day; it’s not inconceivable that he may have the same gut reaction to my appearance that Tom did (although I’ve already got a whole bunch of scars; I don’t see what a few more would affect all that much). We agreed that if this ever happened, we would work through it. If I were the one with the mastectomy, and hubby said to me “Babe, I gotta tell ya, that scar tissue bothers me an awful lot”, then maybe I would start wearing a silky camisole to bed or something, until he got used to it, or forever, if that was required. If that didn’t work, we could consider counseling. Whatever. But when we promised to love one another “in sickness and in health”, we meant it! It was not a promise that we made lightly, and it should never be made lightly. We all know, when entering a marriage, that shit happens. When you take the vows, you pretty much promise that you’ll stick through the shit. The guy broke a promise, a very solemn promise, plain and simple. I think that warrants a little righteous indignation.
Maybe Tom will come around as others have said but, as a woman, I wouldn’t want a man back in my life that abandoned me when I needed him the most.
The fact that my husband was icked out by some scars enough to leave me, our children and the years we spent together would make me not take him back no matter how much he begged.
But, that’s just me. I would rather be alone than with some man who valued my breasts more than me.
norinew, I’m not saying this guy isn’t in the wrong. He is, in my book as much as everyone else’s. I just think the pile-up is ill-justified, for the reasons stated: It’s not going to help anyone, and it’s an unpleasant reaction from people who have not had to walk that mile in those shoes. It is, I think, time enough to make with the indignation when you have met the same temptation and conquered it. A little bit of “There, but for the grace of God…” wouldn’t be out of place.
Before I shoot a coward, I think it is necessary that I have not only stood in the trenches and heard the bullets whistle around my ears, but have felt the terrible urge to run, the scream of fear that turns off the conscious mind and lays open the nasty place in my psyche where live all the ignoble impulses I despise… and stood my ground nonetheless. If I were fortunate enough to face the danger and never know fear, I should thank my good luck and not crime those not so blessed. If I have never faced the danger - what business have I even opening my mouth?
shrug I seem to be feeling compassionate today instead of curmudgeonly. It probably won’t last.
** Coldfire ** The strange thing is that a few weeks after Anne’s operation Tom spoke to us in the pub and did mention that he found it offputting.
He made no mention of the fact that he was considering jumping ship.
I can’t remember if we said to him that he had to stick by his wife no matter what, we more than likely did but I honestly can’t remember.
** Malacandra ** If Tom had stuck with Anne then none of the brickbats would have been flung his way. To our way of looking at it he abandoned the woman he is supposed to love at a time when she needed him more than any other time. This is what we find despicable and cowardly.
To reject Tom the way we have wasn’t easy, I have known him for 20 years or so and the rest of his erstwhile drinking buddies for some considerable years…believe me it was not easy.
Ehh… you and they are finding it easier than offering forgiveness and understanding, from where I’m sitting. But, at that, and by my own argument above, I haven’t stood in your shoes either.