Foot in mouth syndrome, again

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ll try to keep this as brief as possible. I have an ex-boyfriend I’ll call Bob. Bob and I dated for almost a year before we amicably parted ways. There were a lot of problems in the relationship, some stemming from his and my problems with depression, some more mundane such as having different goals in life.

We stayed very close friends, however. He is one of only a couple of people I feel comfortable with discussing anything. I consider him one of my best friends. Then Bob started dating Anne, and very shortly thereafter got her pregnant :smack: . They decided to keep the baby, a decision I wasn’t entirely comfortable with, them having known each other only briefly and being rather young to start a family. But it was their decision, and I supported it, eventually letting them move in with me so that they could save money and prepare for the baby.

Throughout all this, I tried my best to strike up a friendship with Anne. She was cordial with me, but never seemed incredibly friendly. I now think that she merely tolerated me because Bob and I were such close friends.

Fast forward a couple of months. They decided to move out of state to be closer to his family. We’ve been keeping in touch via email and phone calls, but I’ve been rather lonely. It’s been almost 2 years since I’ve lived alone (Bob and I lived together while we were dating, then I lived with my sister briefly before living with Bob and Anne, and even before all that my other best friend practically lived on my couch) so I’ve been having trouble adjusting and have felt sad for a while. I missed Bob pretty badly, and realized I really never had a chance to get over him because we constantly hung out.

Now, I don’t mean that I still have feelings for him, at least not the “I want to be with you forever” sort of feelings. We don’t work together as a couple, but he’s someone I care about very much, and someone I understand very well and vice versa. So, he’s the sort of person I want in my life, just not the hearts and flowers kind of way.

Now, I wanted to tell someone this, that I never really got over Bob and I’m kind of down about it. My other great friend is out of town also, and rather busy with work and school, so I haven’t gotten a chance to talk to him lately. So what do I do? I turn to the only other person I feel comfortable discussing my feelings with, Bob.

This is what I said, amidst other things like “I’m holding your mail for you” and “I hope this new job works out.”

“I really do miss you guys, I wish you’d call more because I feel so lonely. I think the problem is I never had a chance to get over you, because we still hung out all the time so it was not even like we really broke up. So I’m sad a lot about you. I hope you guys are doing all right and I hope you guys can come down and visit sometime soon.”

Well, apparently Anne read this email. I don’t know if she was accessing his email with his knowledge and permission or not, but she decided this was unforgiveable and has forbidden Bob to talk to me. I have apologized several times, mostly via text message and voicemail, and finally got a chance to actually talk to Bob last night (because I pointed out that you can’t cut off all contact with me, you owe me some money, remember?). Basically, he has chosen to do as Anne wants because he doesn’t want anymore stress this close to the birth, and he’ll send me money as soon as he can. End of story.

So, opinions? Go ahead, tell me I’m an idiot for saying it, it does seem rather foolish now but at the time I was completely miserable, off my meds, and feeling like shit and I wanted to tell someone other than my journal how I was feeling.

Personally I think Anne’s reaction is based on some jealousy she’s harbored for a while combined with the crazy pregnant hormones and the fact that she never really liked me in the first place. I think Bob’s a coward for not at least insisting that he explain it to me personally and apologizing for suddenly ending our close friendship.

And I’m an idiot too. But hopefully a sympathetic idiot.

(I am so totally getting flamed for this, aren’t I?)

2

You acted in good faith and open heart, but maybe with questionable judgement.

Bob could stand to man up a little, but he’s in a really awkward position.

Anne is being a little bit of a bitch.

3

If this is really what you wrote – “you guys” – then I’d say she’s overreacting. If she was comfortable enough to live with you knowing your history, then you missing their presence shouldn’t be that weird. Of course, there’s a good chance that that’s something they fought about while they lived with you and afterwards. Plus she’s pregnant and making safety and security her number one priorities. He’s in a tough position, but probably making the best decision, at least for now. All you can really do is wish them well and hope she comes around when she’s feeling more confident.

4

Sorry, I’ve got no flames for you.

I expect she saw the “I never had a chance to get over you” part and that was really all it took for her hormone and chemically altered psych to decide you were still holding the torch for him.

There’s nothing really you can do about it for the forseeable future until her body gets settled down, and from past experience, that can take a while. So just bite your tongue and bide your time. Further attempts to contact Bob would likely only exacerbate the situation. Bob is already treading on eggshells around her and is doing the best he can.

Sorry I’ve got no better advice. Talk to us and keep your journal current.

5

Yeah I copied that directly from the message. If she has been reading all his messages, she’d have seen that in every one (and every phone call) I asked how she was doing, is her belly getting huge, stuff like that.

I’m glad at least you 3 seem to agree she’s overreacting a wee bit (especially since she’s good friends with one of her exes and Bob is ok with that. The difference being that Bob likes her ex whereas now I get the impression she never really liked me much, whether because she felt threatened or just thought I sucked).

6

I forgot- in the interest of full disclosure, I sent this to Anne last night, intended to be the last contact with them other than what’s absolutely necessary (like, “You owe me, and I need to pay the electric bill, can you send me a check this week?”).

"I’m not trying to change your mind, this is just something I need to say and I hope you will read it.

I want to apologize again. Looking back, it was the wrong thing to say. Just understand, I think of Bob as a good friend. We were friends before we dated, we were friends after we dated. He is someone I feel close enough to that I could talk to about anything.

I didn’t say it because I still have feelings for him, I hope you understand that. It just sometimes takes a while to get over someone even if you don’t still want to be with them. I shouldn’t have said it to him, and I’m sorry.

I realize now that you probably never really liked me when we were hanging out. I tried to be friends with you, but for whatever reason you weren’t interested. I can’t make everyone like me, so I accept that. Just know that I do like you and all I care about is for you and Bob and Baby to be happy.

I tried to help as much as I could so that you guys would be happy and would be less stressed out and would have a chance to get things together before the baby came. There was no ulterior motive there, I just really do know what you’re going through and I tried to help as much as I could.

I know that you’re angry, and you don’t want Bob to talk to me anymore. If that’s what it takes to make you feel comfortable and make you guys happy, then I’ll have to accept that too. Just know that I do miss you both and I regret not being able to meet Baby when she comes along.

I do hope that eventually your anger will fade and you might be ok with talking to me again. I’ll do whatever I can to make it up to you. My apologies may seem like empty gestures, but they do come from the heart.

Just take care of yourself, take care of your baby, and take take of Bob. I really do want to see the three of you healthy and happy. And if, sometime down the road, you aren’t as upset at me as you are now, maybe we can start over and try to be friends.

All the best,
RedRoses"

7

I don’t know Anne, but I think she could easily take this the wrong way.
Here are some of the problems:

  • ‘I’m not trying to change your mind’ … actually, you are
  • ‘(Bob and I) were friends before we dated’ … she doesn’t want to be reminded about this
  • ‘(Bob and I) were friends after we dated’ … she doesn’t want to be reminded about this
  • ‘He is someone I feel close enough to that I could talk to about anything’ … I want him back
  • ‘I didn’t say it because I still have feelings for him’ … this could mean either “I don’t have feelings for him - that’s not why I said it” or “I still have feelings for him”
  • ‘It just sometimes takes a while to get over someone’ … I’m not over him
  • ‘I shouldn’t have said it to him’ … but I had to, because I still care for him
  • 'you probably never really liked me ’ … and this communication isn’t going to change that!
  • ‘I tried to be friends with you, but for whatever reason you weren’t interested’ … you’re a cow
  • ‘I know that you’re angry’ … you’re a cow

Sorry, but I don’t think she’ll even read to the end of this and I think it’ll be a long time before she lets Bob contact you.

8

Well, here is her response to that, rather shorter than my message.

"I did think of you as a friend of mine at first.

I dont trust you at all. I have a hard time regaining trust with someone after i feel like they stabbed me in the back like you did. I honestly dont want the stress in my relationship and I hope you really can respect that. All the help you have given me means a lot but none of it can make up for the fact of what was said."

9

Try to look at this current rift as your opportunity to get over him.

Maybe someday you two can patch things up, but right now isn’t a good time. She really does need him more than you do right now, with the baby on the way.

10

Aw, hugs, RedRoses.

I think part of the reason Anne may have flipped with your original email was the wording ‘I never had a chance to get over you’ rather than something more innocuous like ‘We never had the chance to get closure from our relationship’. I do think she’s overreacting though - even if you did still have feelings for Bob, so what as long as you don’t act on them? People can’t help the way they feel. And you made it clear with your second email that you don’t have feelings for him, and she reacts by saying you stabbed her in the back.

I think you’re probably the same as me, in that you hate having people mad or upset at you, especially if you didn’t mean to upset them, and you’d do anything you can to establish good relations again. But not everyone will respond to that, so sometimes you have to let it go. I still find that really hard, but it has to be done sometimes. Good luck hon.

11

I’m sorry to say that the best thing for everyone here, I’m afraid, is to settle the debts and stop talking. It sucks and hurts on your end, certainly, but you’re in a position where everything you say can be misconstrued. She’s probably being a whiny little bitch™, but she’s also dealing with the chemical cocktail that pregnancy throws in the mix. There’s territorialism, nesting instinct, and something constantly pressing on your bladder. :wink:

In short, if it hurts when you do that…stop doing that. You’re in a position where you can’t go back to what you had…best move on as dwelling in the current situation isn’t letting you move on, and it isn’t fair to them, whether or not you agree with their decisions. Frankly, as long as you have ANY feelings of ANY kind for him, she’ll consider you a threat.

It sucks, but whattaya gonna do?

12

This doesn’t read well. It’s needy, clingy. By virtue of knowing you a long time, Bob might come away with the message you intended, but I can see where Anne would not.

Couples make decisions based on what they think will make them happy, serve their interests, etc. You’re not in that loop and even if Anne didn’t feel threatened by your former relationship with him, she wouldn’t like adding a member to the “decision making committee.”

Whether she accessed it in a kosher fashion or not is for him/them to address.

I want you on your best behavior, Red, about the money issue. This can’t be used as an excuse to open up other topics, initiate a convo he doesn’t want to have, etc. I’m not saying you would, but he’ll probably be on red alert when he talks to you, so you have to stay on the beam and not give the least appearance of straying from the topic. He’ll probably resent you for it, deeply, if he thinks otherwise.

Protecting an unborn baby by shielding the mother from stress is a valid concern, IMO. God forbid anything goes wrong with the pregnancy…you could become a lightning rod for the blame.

I disagree with the underlined part. Bob is in a relationship that he’s trying to make work, and he has a child on the way. Those are his top priorities and he’s acting accordingly. Anne could be madder than a hatter (debatable) but maybe he doesn’t have much choice.

IMO when you start a relationship, old friends are supposed to be “grandfathered in.” If Anne didn’t like you, she should have made that clear to Bob before getting serious. Bob could have told her to get lost or he could have accepted that.

It would have been totally different if you just met him; if anything, I think she’d feel that you’re less threat than anybody, since you already tried and saw that it wasn’t working…but if she didn’t feel that way, she should have let him know.

In that sense that you should have been grandfathered in, yes, it’s a shame he wasn’t allowed to explain at least. But if his SO wants to be the dragon lady, there can be hell to pay for him. He may think or even know something’s bullshit, but that doesn’t matter. He lives with her, she could make his life hell, etc.

I think your email gave her a smoking gun. She saw the chance to play it as the card to oust you from their lives and took it. It could be that with time she’ll calm down, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

13

I don’t think Anne is in the wrong here. I think you need to leave Bob alone, RedRoses. He’s having a baby with Anne (which, by the way, is none of your business, and it doesn’t need your stamp of approval). He needs to be fully in that relationship, not pulled in two directions by you and your neediness. Anne’s telling you the truth - she doesn’t trust you. From what you’ve written here, I don’t either. You seem to think that your needs take precedence over whatever else is going on in people’s lives.

14

Agreed.

Agreed only to the extent that the baby is coming and she needs to make Bob’s life as stressless as she can right now. I’ve seen friends pulled away from other friends who are as trustworthy and as honest as can be because of what their SO wants. If the friendship is really strong, losing that can make the person harbor bitterness toward his/her SO. There have to be compromises made in relationships, but assuming Roses has at least a vaguely accurate description of the situation, being friends with Bob (maybe not right now, maybe after a closure period) isn’t just what she needs, it’s also what he needs.

15

So, she was willing to tolerate your friendship with Bob while you were providing them with a place to stay, and now that they’re out she wants you out of his life? That’s charming.
Yeah, you probably shouldn’t have said what you did, but if the woman was willing to live with you knowing your past history with Bob, she shouldn’t get to play the shocked and betrayed game now, since you didn’t try to make a play to get him back and your message included both of them. I wouldn’t bother bending over backwards to try to make it up to her, because between her hormones and general bitchiness, it’s probably not going to help. It sucks, but settling your debts and moving on might be the only thing you can do.

16

On the bright side, between the accidental pregnancy and apparent money problems, I give their relationship maybe a year after the baby is born!

17

I see it as she tolerated the friendship that she didn’t trust until RedRoses crossed the line with her email.

Technically it did, but if I got that message from my husband’s ex, I would be fairly sure that it was intended for him, not for both of us. What RedRoses did with saying “you guys” is she covered her ass with plausible deniability. I wouldn’t buy it any more than Anne is.

Agreed. (But I still don’t think Anne is completely in the wrong here.)

As for what Bob needs, Bob needs to get both feet in the Anne and new baby canoe, and not have one still in the friendship with RedRoses that upsets his current pregnant girlfriend canoe.

I realize I am probably (likely) coming off as a hard-ass here, but this is about more than RedRoses’ friendship with an ex-boyfriend - this is about two people having a baby together, and having the best chance at making a stable life to raise that baby.

18

I told you I was getting flamed for this (however mildly).

To address all the new input:

  1. Yes, that part of my message does read clingy. Like I said, it was written when I was feeling miserable and needed to talk to someone. However, the rest of the message, and the communication between Bob* and Anne and I (because Anne and I have talked prior to said message being read) has been pretty mundane. “Gotten a job yet?” “Have you found a new doctor for Anne?” “Having fun out in the boonies?” “Yadda yadda I went on a date last night.” “That guy’s a jerk, he blew me off the next time we had plans.”

  2. I think I have a right to an opinion on whether or not Bob and Anne’s decision was intelligent. Has no one ever said to themselves (or their friends) “That girl’s not right for you” or “Your job is totally fucking you over, why do you stay there?” or something along those lines. Something I feel I should mention now is that Anne is still a teenager, Bob only 21. I’m young too, but older than both of them, and I just don’t think it’s exactly the best situation to have a child. Their decision doesn’t need my stamp of approval, no, but I’m at least entitled to have an opinion on it (which I have kept to myself, btw, excepting the Straight Dope and another friend of mine).

  3. As for “covering my ass” by including both of them, that’s a load of bull. In every message or conversation with Bob, I always asked about Anne, because I do care about her well-being too, and miss having her around. Even though we were never very close, I still enjoyed her company.

I can’t remember any other specifics I wanted to address now.

*I first wrote Boob. That made me laugh.

19

I pointed out that your e-mail was at best ambiguous and at worse showed you wanted Bob back.
This is not flaming.
if you don’t want advice, why did you post?

Once you give the impression that you want Bob back from the mother of his child, adding mundane stuff is not going to matter.

Sure.
And Anne has a right to be scared of your intentions and we have a right to criticise the way you phrase your communications.
Have a careful look how you come across in your e-mails and in this thread - it seems to be all about what you want.
By the way, if you share your opinion of Bob and Anne’s ‘stupidity’ with them, how do you think they’ll react?

Sure.
And usually it doesn’t go well.
I remember when my mate got engaged to a cunning monster. Another mate told him exactly what he thought and they never spoke again. I kept my mouth shut (and after the traumatic divorce was able to console him).

I’m 55 and have seen this stuff happen a lot.

Saying ‘their decision doesn’t need your stamp of approval’ reveals a lot about the pain you are in and how much you resent Bob and hate Anne.
(N.B. If you are over an ex, then when they remarry it’s not a problem.)

And now you have told a friend a fascinating piece of news?
it is human nature that she will tell someone else: “RedRosesForMe thinks Bob and Annne shouldn’t have a kid!”
Soon it will reach Anne…

20

The “stamp of approval” wording was in response to another poster who criticized me for expressing the opinion that this was a rash decision.

And yes, I’ve spoken to another friend about it, who is rather rabidly anti-Bob and Anne procreating, so I doubt she’s dying to pass along the news that I have expressed some misgivings to her.