Here ya go.
Sigh. BigT, we’ve interacted before, and I’ve felt empathy for you as we share some mental issues (depression, panic, etc.). So with genuine respect, I wish you would dial this back now. I don’t want to hurt anyone. I wanted to prevent people from being hurt. You’ve now created this perfect “no way out” scenario where we either said we were skeptics right from the start–which would make us assholes who love hurting people–or we do what we did, which was wait until the evidence mounted and the final straw was placed on the camel’s back. Which, as you say, makes us assholes who liked hurting people.
But that’s a false premise. There really is nothing wrong with being uncertain, and skeptical, but remaining silent because you do want to give some benefit of the doubt, but as things pile up eventually there’s just too much. I think I’ve made it crystal clear what made me concerned from the start, and this is coming from someone with experience in running communities and spotting typical scammers. I don’t think it’s egregious to have been skeptical at that first thread.
What made me speak up in this thread, now, is precisely what I said made me speak up: with the death hoax, we’d reached the point where Dopers’ feelings were genuinely hurt, and toyed with very cruelly. That pissed me off, because (and if you remember any of my posts, BigT, you’ll hopefully remember this fact) I’ve been helped by this community myself; I’ve been supported and found it a comforting, generally safe place (with proper precautions of course) to admit some of my problems and struggles. I like the SDMB. Sure, I have disagreements at times with how some mods behave but I’m not a perpetual complainer; I don’t stir up trouble; I don’t bully people; I don’t hope this place is shut down. I feel affection for this community and its denizens. (Well, most of 'em. I’m partisan as hell and I admit my dislike a lot of people who stand for things that repulse me.)
But on the whole, this is my second favorite community (apart from my own, natch), and I might lose my “cynic” cred but fuck it: it matters to me. I’m often sad and lonely and this place sometimes makes me laugh or engages me and takes me out of my depression.
So when someone comes here and uses people, feeds off them like a leech, engorging on their adoration only to cause the inevitable heartbreak when their manipulative, bloated creation “dies” or “nearly dies” (which is as predictable as the sun rising in the east when it comes to frauds like this, either due to being caught out, or just for kicks to soak up the premature obituaries). It’s fucking cruel, loathsome, and pathetic. Greed is all that motivates a creature like this. Whether it’s greed for attention, for money, for sexual gratification, or just sadistic pleasure. They’re profiting from their targets’ pain and cannot wait for that final, glorious, coup de grace.
And people like me, who want to prevent this final apotheosis, are the ones who are hurting people?
So it’s better to let frauds perpetrate their bullshit. Even if the ending–and it will end, there will be a payoff, because a troll doesn’t get to climax without the proper curtain call–breaks people’s hearts and makes them feel like utter shit for believing in someone who ripped them off, if not financially, then emotionally?
I’m sorry, but no. That isn’t true. I’m also sorry you think that every single person who’s been calling umkay out in this thread has the exact same motive. I think that’s unfair. Yes, there are some who are delighting in the unveiling and the unraveling of the near fawning adoration this quite likely fraud gathered to her/himself. I wish they wouldn’t, and I’ve said as much. But there’s been a helluva lot of smugness on both sides, and I think each are reacting to the other in a kind of competition to see who can be more obnoxiously superior and above all, righter than thou.
I know you weren’t talking to me, but right back atcha.
I’ve acknowledged several times that there is a chance we’re wrong. But you are sweeping every one of us with the broadest brush available, because you continually want to play the hero, the one man who stands up for the little guy, the protector of the meek and the One True Caring Guy. This isn’t a bad quality, obviously. We do need people like that! But not always you, and not all the time. Not all “victims” are equal–and they’re not all victims, either. Sometimes your instincts are wrong, and you simply refuse to acknowledge it.
I apologize in advance for the analysis, but again, I recognize some of myself in you, and I’m not saying this from a “higher place” – believe me, I’m actually at a pretty low place right now. But here’s the thing. I think you’re so afraid of being personally hurt, or disbelieved, or insulted, or driven out of the SDMB, that you ascribe these same fears and issues to others, and think everyone who comes here is a damsel (or whatever the male counterpart is) in distress to be protected from the Big Bad Cruel Dopers. Not everyone is as vulnerable as we are, BigT. People can fight their own battles.
In particular umkay, no matter who or what she is, can certainly defend him or herself if s/he chooses to; s/he’s proven that. But even the way s/he’s gone about that hasn’t helped his/her case, because it’s just been so out of character. People don’t change personalities overnight unless they’re mentally ill, and the character of Clare / umkay was not mentally ill as presented.
The route s/he took first, strangely double-talking, non-denial denial “I prefer not to respond because you are as anonymous as I am, and I have suddenly decided I actually do have boundaries” sounded like a politician’s statement right before he says “that is my statement; no questions will be answered.” Very out of character.
Then s/he went to real left field by turning into a vicious hissing, cornered snake. What a sudden switch from Everyone’s Funniest, Good-naturedest, Pluckiest Gal to vitriol-spewing, private-message-revealing viper! That’s the sign of a cornered beast, BigT. That’s not how someone who’s presented herself as a cheerful, casual, open and savvy person would behave. She accepts her quadriplegic status with bon homie but can’t take some questioning from a community? Come on.
This person is a decent writer, but apparently can’t keep in character; it’s not surprising, because the truth is always a fraud’s biggest downfall.
Here’s how a real person with the personality she presented would probably react:
There. That’s an estimate of a realistic response. (It’s certainly how I would’ve responded, and I’m not even nearly as good-natured as “Clare” supposedly was.) But I’m guessing* that umkay couldn’t have responded like that–because there is no umkay, not the person we knew.
I hope you accept this and think about it, BigT, and anyone else who is willing to listen to someone who is not one of the “usual suspects” pointing and laughing at your “gullibility.” I think it’s a good thing people here are willing to welcome newbies and to extend them trust. I just also think some healthy skepticism is also a good thing, and should be welcomed by anyone who joins here in good faith – and who knows what this site’s raison d’etre is supposed to be about.
And oh Christ, Beastly Rotter, will you please SHUT THE FUCK UP? God, I’m on the same side as you in this situation and you’re doing more harm than good. Worse, you’re like a troll-feeder–feeding the very people you despise. People who are self-righteous and holier-than-thou are going to ignore all our attempts at showing reason and intelligence and proof, and just focus on your vicious gleeful insults. If you don’t give a shit about that, well, that’s fine. Get your kicks all you want. I just beseech everyone else: please don’t lump all us umkay-skeptics together.
- Guessing, because yes, there is still the possibility I’m wrong. It’s amazing how few people on either side are willing to say this.
BTW, as long as we’re sharing links, how about this one? http://disabilitytrolls.blogspot.com/ Scroll down to the section on Pretenders. It mostly focuses on spotting them on Facebook, but I think you’ll recognize some symptoms.
umkay = a pretty apparent troll by now, started an “Ask The…” thread, pretending to be a pretty, rich, candid in matters sexual and also a cute, witty quadriplegic who never let this tragedy get in her way; gaining quite a following in record time for a new poster.
She disappeared from the board for a few days, and posters were expressing their concerns.
Then, notokay posted in that thread, claiming to be family, and that umkay had died. Much grief and eulogizing were expressed.
The next day, umkay shows back up and is all like, "wtf?! This is news to me! I’m still alive, yay! Celebrate MEEE!"
And then, the joy and rapture of her return, planning of parties, drinking of the celebratory wine, and slaughtering the fatted calf.
Then this thread to scold big, bad notokay for making them believe umkay was dead. Who could possibly be that cruel?!
And finally, those skeptical of the whole ordeal, expressing doubt that umkay is who she says she is, started to finally come to a head, but of course, you can’t express doubt or skepticism without being called a cynical asshole, even when it’s completely justified by (admittedly) circumstantial evidence.
Now, “sezyoo” from another board, seems to be yet another trolling quadriplegic with some uncanny similarities and details to umkays, that was kicked off after being exposed about a month before joining here.
The saga continues…
cmyk, as long as the evidence was all completely circumstantial, I don’t think a little scepticism of the specticism was completely out of line, especially since it was presented with such conviction. Now, the whole sezyoo business has of course turned me around a bit, but there are people who are handling their “victory” gracefully, like choie, and some that are not.
Thanks.
I never did participate in any of the “Ask the…” discussion, because she seemed to already have it together. I wouldn’t say I was skeptical, but I thought something was awfully cheery in her disposition, given her circumstances: unlike Ambivalid who, when he started here, had a genuine chip on his shoulder. (But has now turned into a decent contributor and all around nice guy.)
Nope. I can’t be bothered. I have better things to do with my time than to go on a witch hunt.
By the way, that thread you posted in ATMB was really shitty. It makes you look like a total horse’s ass.
Oh, shut the fuck up. If umkay were to show up right now with solid proof that she is who she says she is you can bet that the unholy shitstorm that would rain down upon the skeptics would be biblical. I don’t have a problem with people who believed her story, but you can bet I’m getting a chuckle at those who went rabid at the thought that anyone could doubt the Dope’s newest princess.
As has been said, the situations are not completely analogous. Believing a fake umkay makes one a person duped by a very well-done hoax written by someone with very intimate knowledge on the subject who managed to fool people like Ambivalid, Broomstick or etv78. Wrongfully accusing a real umkay of being a troll makes one a pretty big douche. My real beef was also with the people who were ready to denounce her as a fake without any real evidence whatsoever (ETA: and no concession of the remote possibility that they’re wrong), which was, even in hindsight, a pretty shitty thing to do.
Aren’t you dead yet*? Seriously–I thought that all this snark and meanness would have have caused your vagina to get so full of sand that you exploded. Or does meanness shorten your life in some other way.
Inquiring minds want to know.
*Please note that I am not “wishing” you dead. Frankly, it’s kinda fun to see you come here and spaz out all over the board and I’ll miss that when you die, because, really—who else can we point to when someone says “What does PALTR mean?”. But the mysterious illness you have that shortens your life when people are mean has got to be affecting you with this latest drama. How many days do you have left?
Their fundamental accusation is that you guys were jumping the gun: that at the point when you had no evidence, just gut feelings, you were already going after ‘her’ like a pack of rabid piranhas.
Even now that you’ve got the goods, their point still stands: if you’d been wrong, you’d have been assholes. But you were right, so it’s all good, I expect.
For the record, my brother is also quadriplegic (although with much better mobility than the alleged umkay), and his attitude isn’t that dissimilar. He even threw a party last fall to “celebrate” the five years since his accident.
That’s one reason why I bought her story - as I noted in the original thread, her attitude reminded me of my brother.
Exactly. I have t read through everything here, but it does seem quite likely I was wrong about this whole thing…but I’d still play it the same way every time. I don’t make it a habit to flame people on gut feelings alone. Like I said earlier. The consequences to me on being faked out are essentially nil. The consequences to a genuine poster who is virtually tarred and feathered and kicked off a board for no reason are much worse.
So you’re still the good guy in all this, correct? And I’m still an asshole?
Just checking.
Yeah, pretty much. Look…I can be an asshole…I certainly have my moments. But before the sezyoo post, there was literally ZERO evidence that wasn’t completely circumstantial. It was a gut feeling. And yes, some of you picked up on some clues, Yay for you! I still, however, am not going to make pretty serious accusations without PROOF, nor will I in the future.
I hope you realize what an asshole that makes you seem like to me.
And a gullible idiot, of course, but you were that all along. Now you’ve just added “graceless dupe” to that.
Oh well. At least you’re basing it off things I’ve actually written and not some wild conjecture you have about me without any evidence.
Do you make it a habit to accuse people publicly and widely for things you have very little proof of in real life? If you wouldn’t do it there, then you shouldn’t do it online either. If you DO make a habit of publicly lambasting someone in real life with very little proof, simply based on a gut feeling, then yes, absolutely that makes you an asshole.
There’s a big difference between being gullible and wanting to see real proof of something before jumping all over someone.
The lack of awareness and humility here is making my morning, I gotta admit.
Lack of awareness? I came in and admitted I was wrong. What more do you want? You know the reasons why I won’t attack someone without evidence, and yet you seem to think this is a bad thing. YOUR lack of awareness about what a judgmental ass you are is equally interesting to me.