Bill Clinton was not a Republican. He’s the one that threw me under the bus, though I recognize that this was in order to compromise with Republicans.
Politics makes strange bedfellows, but if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
Then say that up front, rather than making a deceptive, context-lacking post.
Sorry you are mad about the way I posted, but we cleared it up quickly in conversation, so I think it’s fine. It’s hard to guess ahead of time what all the objections will be, and if I include them all in one post, it will get skipped over for being too long.
Adding that important context up front about Langford’s “Democratic” candidacy – and why you think it’s a sign of the Democratic Party’s issues – would have added a couple of sentences, at most. shrug
It would. So would context about Gallego, because even though I mentioned it in this thread before, I can’t be sure people read it. At some point, it has to go into the ether. But feedback noted.
…except it isn’t just Trump and the Republicans.
It’s also the trans-hating-assholes who are voting against Trump that you are shaking hands with. There are Democrats and independents who are also trans-hating assholes. Who are misogynists. Who are racist. Who support the genocide in Gaza. They promote discrimination. And they want more of it.
There is absolutely zero empirical evidence that “shaking hands” with trans-hating-assholes will do anything to get Trump & Co out of power. We can even test this.
How many trans-hating-assholes have you knowingly shaken hands with in the last week? In the last month? How much “reaching across the aisle” are you actually doing?
If you aren’t actually doing this to any degree that matters, and nobody else is either, then this isn’t actually a viable strategy, nor is it a pathway to victory.
But you must know that. You aren’t stupid.
If the Republicans are murdering Jews, then defeating the Republicans is stopping the murders.
Claims that Republicans even want to murder Jews are nothing but anti-Republican hysteria despite any evidence to the contrary.
I’ve said my goal is to get Trump and the Republicans out of power. I feel the Democrats are the ones most strongly motivated to do this.
That said, if there are any Democrats who aren’t on board with impeaching Trump and removing him from office, we should vote them out of office as well.
I want to see the impeachment of Donald Trump as the primary issue of this year’s election. I want there to be public pressure on every candidate.
If the Republicans are not murdering the Jews, then defeating the Republicans is stopping them from committing the other crimes they are committing.
This. @Little_Nemo’s sanctimonious finger-wagging about conciliation of potential allies is self-congratulatory preening that accomplishes zilch from a practical point of view.
To the extent that ”when someone tells you they’re voting against Trump, don’t gratuitously go off-message to insult those fellow anti-Trump voters to their faces about other issues on which you disagree with them” is valid practical advice, it’s advice that everybody here is already following.
To the extent that @Little_Nemo is advocating for various bigot-courting techniques that other posters in this thread do not support, there is no real-world indication whatsoever that what he’s advocating would have any valid practical effect in actually removing Trumpists from power.
The assertion that it would is just something that @Little_Nemo made up so that he could pretend that he’s somehow accomplishing more concrete results in the anti-Trumpist struggle than the people whose rhetoric strikes him as “hysterical” and “over the top”. This pretense, natch, is completely unsubstantiated by evidence.
Not only that, but it seems to me very likely to do exactly the reverse.
Because it reads to me that they’re saying that we should tell everybody protesting this administration on the grounds of the rights of trans people, and/or gay people, and/or immigrants, and/or anybody who looks to ICE as if they might be an immigrant, and/or of Jews or Muslims or Palestinians or Native Americans or Greenlanders, and/or in opposition to an imperial USA, and/or about environmental issues, and I’ve probably left something out — that we should tell all those people to shut up on the subjects, because insisting on mentioning them might piss off the bigots.
That wouldn’t get Trump and his assorted backers out of power. That would only work to destroy the movement that stands any chance of doing so. In our diversity actually is our strength.
Yeah, @Little_Nemo’s whole thread here is basically a glass house built to throw stones from. “Now I shall berate you fellow Trump opponents about your other views that I disagree with, to convince you that berating fellow Trump opponents about their other views that you disagree with is counterproductive.”
Nicely put!
And yet when I started a thread to say this, I got a number of people saying they disagree with me.
“In our diversity actually is our strength.” This is the key point. We in the anti-Trump opposition need to recognize diversity.
So it’s great when people are out protesting against the Trump administration - as long as they’re planning on voting against Trump and the Republicans.
But it’s also acceptable when people aren’t protesting against the Trump administration - as long as they’re planning on voting against Trump and the Republicans.
My point is that we shouldn’t be dividing up people based on whether they protest or not. The important division is whether or not they are going to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
As soon as someone says that they’re voting against the America-hating fuckstick, you STOP ASKING QUESTIONS! Especially “Why?”
Nobody’s said that we should.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here.
Are you expressing your own principle of how you do things? Or are you paraphrasing what you think I’m saying?
If it’s the latter, I disagree. I have no problem with discussing the reason why somebody else is voting against Trump and the Republicans. There are many good reasons to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
I’ve just been saying you shouldn’t berate people who are voting against Trump and the Republicans and tell them they’re voting against Trump and the Republicans for the wrong reason.
As you did in the OP.
I don’t feel I’ve done that.
One person here has said they are voting against Trump and the Republicans because they feel they are supporting Palestinian genocide. I’m fine with that as a reason to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
One person here has said they are voting against Trump and the Republicans because they are persecuting trans people. I’m fine with that as a reason to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
One person here has said they are voting against Trump and the Republicans because they expect Trump to start a war with Mexico. I’m fine with that as a reason to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
One person here has said they are voting against Trump and the Republicans because they expect Trump to feeding Hispanic people to alligators. I’m fine with that as a reason to vote against Trump and the Republicans.
I’m not saying there are right reasons and wrong reasons. I’m okay with any reason that causes a person to decide to vote against Trump and the Republicans.