I’m on John Lennon’s side on this suggestion, but I have no alternatives. The socities I have lived in both came about via brutal revolution vs brutal put down.
One failed state, one OK but struggling.
There is absolutely no sense in trying to impeach Trump for a third time unless we get 60 votes in the Senate. I don’t want them wasting their time on that instead of spending it on doing every damn thing they can to stop what he’s trying to do, to blunt the effects of what they can’t stop as much as possible, and to ensure that we actually get elections in more than name in 26 and 28 (and thereafter.)
67 votes.
Assuming a (D) sweep in senate races, is this doable?
[I always assume a (D) sweep in all races because everyone knows that it’s a sin to vote for a Republican.
Americans don’t want to be sinners, right?]
Is ‘sinning’ the enjoyable stuff that you can get forgiven for?
Whoops, I think you’re right. It needs a two thirds vote, doesn’t it?
Even less plausible. And thanks for the correction.
…and again: if everyone follows the rules, then Trump is gone from office in two years. It makes no sense to make the primary issue of the midterms focused on doing something that is literally just going to happen.
At this point I’m like…have you even read any of my posts? Because if you had, you wouldn’t need to ask this question. I’ve told you multiple times what my “plan” would be.
But the answer to your question really is a spectrum. There is what I personally would do. There is what I think the Democrats should do. There is what I reasonably think the Democrats are capable of doing. And there is what I think the Democrats will actually do.
What I think they actually will do is listen to the donors and the consultants and the pundits and run a centre-right campaign focused on moderate push-back on Trump’s most prominent policies and mostly ignore things MAGA are doing that agree with but aren’t popular with the Dem base.
What I think they actually are capable of is to take firm positions on doable things like “abolish ICE”, trans rights, freedom of speech, rewrite the narrative on immigration, condition aid to Israel, fight for the right to abortion, fight voter suppression. Reset their values to at least the Obama era.
What I think the Democrats should do is remove the Democrat establishment. Let them all retire gracefully. Completely upend their strategic thinking based on the fact we are now living in a post-truth world. The oligarchs basically control the entire media and social media ecosystem. It is becoming impossible for even people like me to tell if something is AI-generated or not. The way to cut through that is an expansive wide-ranging ground game and that’s more than just candidates talking to people but also actively fighting voter suppression. Bring in new, inspirational, diverse leadership that aren’t lost in endless talking-points. These people already exist. They just need to be elevated.
Here is a video taken a year ago where Mamdani hit the streets to ask why people voted for Trump. Note how many people mentioned Gaza and compare that to what Little_Nemo said where he doesn’t “see it as very central in American politics.”
It’s about listening to what the people want and then giving them something to vote for.
And by “listening”, that doesn’t mean opinion polling that is filtered through layers of paid pundits and consultants who likely have conflicts of interest because that is what led to the disastrous idea that Harris should position herself as “tougher on immigration” than Trump.
It means getting out on the streets and listening to the people. There is a difference between reaching out to people in the Mamdani video who voted for Trump and the people that Little_Nemo wants to reach out to, which are the racists and the bigots and the transphobes. Those people are a very loud minority. And they will lie to your face and stab you in the back. You don’t want them as allies. You don’t need them.
I think the Dems need to take the fight to MAGA. I think the Harris campaign was so deliberately “stage managed” that they put a muzzle on Walz, avoided all of the hot-button issues, and didn’t give people anything to vote for.
And that’s a point I keep coming back to. Listen to people and give the people something to vote for. Have a moral backbone. It’s elections 101. And if you do get elected…then do what you promised to do.
I can’t promise you that what I want the Democrats to do will win the next election. And I don’t know if your strategy of “shaking hands with trans-hating-assholes” would pay off or not. We aren’t looking back at history. We are trying to predict the future. And whatever actually happens will be viewed through a biased filter anyway.
All I know is that I could live with myself if we did it my way, but I couldn’t live with myself by doing it yours. The odds aren’t great anyway. But I’d just rather go down fighting instead of going down being complicit.
Yes, it’s possible.
Right now there are 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats, and 2 independents who canvas with the Democrats in the Senate.
33 Senators are up for re-election this year. 20 of these are Republicans and 13 are Democrats.
This means that if there was a sweep by the Democrats, there would be 33 Republicans and 67 Democrats/independents.
But going beyond a complete sweep, you have to consider the effects of a strong swing. Let’s say that impeachment is the key issue of this election and 20 of those 30 Republicans running for re-election lose.
What do you think the effect would be on the Republican Senators who are running for re-election in 2028? When they see Republicans losing elections due to a refusal to impeach Trump, I’ll bet a few rats will decide it’s time to leave the ship and save themselves.
33 Republicans and 66 Democrats/independents and Fetterman.
I disagree.
First, I don’t think we should ignore the damage that Trump is going to do in the next two years.
Second, I think there is an enormous difference between Trump being impeached and removed from office and Trump leaving office after a completed second term. We need to demonstrate that Trump’s actions cost him his presidency - otherwise, we’re just waiting for the next Trump to get elected.
We The Republicans need to demonstrate that Trump’s actions cost him his presidency - otherwise, we’re just waiting for the next Trump to get elected.
See: The reaction to, and Republican/conservative mythologizing of, Nixon’s impeachment.
…Trump isn’t doing jack-shit. He’s an old man who can barely string a sentence together. He’s a dithering idiot. An incompetent fool.
He isn’t in charge.
The Democrats probably won’t impeach him and even if they do, they aren’t going to remove him from office.
That’s a fantasy scenario.
They don’t have it in them. They won’t do it. They are cowards. Even if they run on this, they aren’t going to do it.
And if they do run on it, why do you think it will make a difference? Because people know he’s going to be gone in two years anyway. Do you think the symbolism matters that much?
And what happens when the attempt to remove him from office inevitably fails because even if they win the House and the Senate, they still probably wouldn’t be able to get enough support to actually do it?
Demonstrating to whom exactly? Stop focusing on “the message” and focus on demonstrating you can get things done.
And there is ALWAYS going to be another Trump around the corner. The world we used to live in where there were moderates on both sides that largely wanted to do the “right thing” is over. There is an extreme toxic “cult” (for want of a better word) that is being driven by the oligarchs that isn’t going to stop. This isn’t an America problem. Its a global one.
You need to get over the idea that this ends with Trump.
Absolutely agree.
The IDU exists for a reason; To get far right wing parties into power everywhere in the world, and keep them there in perpetuity. All power to the Oligarchs!
No, you’re thinking a savior figure. I am absolutely not suggesting that. I want a leader, which means someone (man, woman, or non-binary) with strong executive abilities who can unite and focus the opposition to Trump. I don’t want to follow someone because I like them. I used to be a member of a very effective union, and the leadership did quite a lot of things, but nobody followed out of charisma. We followed (and participated) because they got shit done, and showed us the path to get involved and be effective in making changes.
I want this too. It’s not happening, though. We, like Congress, have delegated the power away from the people, and we no longer hold it, unless you can organize literal millions of people to assert it. If we got a new party up and running for November and swept the slate, that would show where the power lies. Ain’t happening.
They’ve already impeached him twice. Why are you so certain they wouldn’t do it a third time? Especially if they’ve got the votes for an actual removal?
…I’m making a prediction based on how much more pathetic the Dems are right now. I’d love to be proven wrong.
I predict they wouldn’t actually try it. Based on the previous “pathetic” status.
Possible isn’t the same as plausible. This is a fantasy. If the Democrats pick up 6 seats I’d be pleasantly surprised - it’s not all that likely they will. There’s a built-in structural disadvantage for Democrats in the Senate that is probably unsolvable and the hyper-polarization of this current political era just makes that math worse.
An intermittent small majority is plausible. But no one is likely getting to two-thirds in the Senate (without rampant cheating of course) any time soon and if anybody does (without cheating) it would more likely be the Republicans because of the above.
Actually removal of Trump from office through impeachment before he terms out is an utter pipe-dream.
Don’t agree. Look at how much damage he’s done in just over a year.
We need to show some spine. Some principle.
We need to set precedent that we will NOT let a criminal organization rape, pilatge and ruin the country.
He must absolutely be removed.
…you misunderstand.
The Democrats absolutely should impeach. They absolutely should remove him from office. He absolutely should be arrested. An example should be set.
These are all things I believe. These are all things if I were the Democrat in chief I would absolutely do.
I’m arguing its pointless for this group of Democrats to run on this in the midterms because even if they did win enough seats, there is no way that they would ever agree to do so.
Little_Nemo is arguing this should be the “primary issue of this election.” I’m arguing that it’s next to impossible to reach the threshold, and if they did they’d chicken out anyway. So to make a statistical impossibility the “primary issue for the midterms” when a good proportion of the public are so indifferent they can just wait it out is not smart strategy.
They already tried twice, the problem is that the Senate are a bunch of Trump ass kissers.
…in other words, there is no way they would ever agree to do so.