Would you be fine if you went to the grocery store and they priced the milk at $2.00, but upon checking out you found it was actually $2.40 because the store is charging you directly for their electricty bill? Or, to make it more relevent, their staff costs?
And that is the main reason I dislike tipping. It is yet another additional cost not explicitely mentioned up front. The only difference between the above situations and tipping is that tipping has somehow become the status quo. I’m not suggesting we do anything about it, because entirely the wrong people would get hurt by the transition. I am just saying that I don’t like the situation in the first place.
I don’t really buy the “service levels will plummet” idea. I predict they would become like any other industry. If management feels they will lose business with unfriendly staff, the unfriendly staff will have to go. If management doesn’t care, the service will suck. I’m fine with that, and can use that as a criteria when deciding where to go eat. Outsourcing the perfomance reviews to the customers is a silly idea. It just means that terrible waitrons earn less money. It doesn’t mean they get fired, which I believe to be far more appropriate.
I don’t necessarily disagree with any of the arguments presented against our form of tipping. However, I still tip, usually 20%.
Is it a bad system? Maybe.
Is it fair or appropriate to penalize waitstaff who depend on tips for a significant portion of their income in order that I may make a futile gesture of protest? No.
I honestly don’t think you are getting twin infinitive’s point. It’s my understanding that he/she is simply stating that if restaurants payed a flat wage to waiters and increased their prices accordingly, there would be no dispute over what is a fair tip or not.
It always seemed illogical to me to base the tip on the price of the meal. Suppose I order the pasta and a slice of pie, it comes to $25, tip = $5.00
The next day I want the super steak and some humongous dessert thingy — it comes to $50, tip = $10.
Now, it required exactly the same amount of time & effort for the waitress to prep the table and deliver the first meal as the second, both are getting the same ‘good’ tip of 25%, and yet the second waitress gets twice as much for it? How is that fair?
I’d really prefer a system like you tip $X per person for a ‘normal’ meal, and work your way up if you whatever you want requires extra trips/time of the waitress.
But, no, I know that isn’t the custom and it probably never will be changed.
Tipping based on the cost of the meal makes perfect sense. A skilled waiter working at a high end resteraunt deserves more compensation than a less skilled waiter who works at a truck stop. The bill will be higher at the nicer place, so the tip will be higher as well. Also, generally, the more work you create for them the higher your bill gets so this is a fair way to determine how much tip they get. For instance, ordering alcohol means a lot of extra work for the waitstaff. However, it also basically doubles the price of the meal so it all works out when it’s tip time.
I like tipping. It gives me, the consumer, control and power over the situation. I like having a recourse for bad service. In Europe, I found the service wasn’t as good as what I was used to in the US. This isn’t surprising when you consider that they will get paid the same no matter how well they provide service.
For me, I start with no tip. I’ll tip if I am impressed with the service. No limit on tip amount. I once tipped $40 on a $25 “have a few drinks with the boys” outing. The waitress was amazing. The place was packed yet she had her job down to such an art that no cup in her section was less than 1/4 full all the while having time to chat at the tables. Plus, she never brought me a straw*
I don’t drink out of straws. the first glass of pop invariably has one in it. I take it out and place it on the table. A refill that comes with a straw indicates that the serer isn’t paying a lot of attention.
In general, i tend to agree. It does seem rather arbitray to tip someone $5 for bringing out pasta and pie, and $10 for carrying a steak and a special dessert. Both take the same amount of trips, and require the same amount of effort.
And the discrepancy is even more noticeable when it comes to drinks. I remember from my waitering days how much of a pain in the ass it was when people ordered things like capuccino. These took a relatively long time to make, and added only 2 bucks to the tab (which, @20%, is 40c in tips). A glass of chardonnay, on the other hand, took all of ten seconds to pour, and added $6.00 ($1.20 tip) to the tab.
Your point is particularly strong, i think, when we’re talking about differently-priced meals in the same restaurant. When comparing different types of restaurants, though, it is possible to make an argument for different types of service. At an expensive restaurant, a waiter might not have very many tables, and might seem not to have to work very hard. But these expensive restaurants also require certain things that cheaper places don’t. If you work at an upscale place, you need to have a good sense of who your customers are, what they want in a server, and how to be attentive without being obtrusive. These are qualities that the customers in those restaurants are apparently willing to pay for.
But, on the other hand…
As someone who has worked in both very casual places, and in high-end restaurants, i really don’t think it takes any more skill to work in a high-end place. In fact, the chaos of serving a big lunch crowd at a cheap tourist cafe can require considerably more skill and effort than serving dinner to the jacket-and-tie crowd at an expensive restaurant.
Frankly, I like the tipping system, it’s one of the only areas in life where you can immediately comment on the level of service given and never have to say a word. It’s true merit based compensation.
My system goes like this…
double the tax, and depending on the amount of the bill, add 2, 5, or 10 bucks.
or…
Whatever I feel like tipping, based on the service. I never, EVER tip on the food. The waiters and bussers have shit to do with the quality of the food, only how quickly I get it, and if all my needs are tended to.
Mandatory gratuities piss me off, but I understand why they’re necessary.
Apparently, shitty tippers also suck at reading comprehension.
What I said in post 4 was:
You’ll notice that nowhere did I say that 20% was cheap, or shitty, or crap. Also, nowhere did I suggest that I’m a server of any sort. I worked in a restaraunt more than a decade ago and have since moved on because it’s a shitty, thankless job, specifically because of assholes like the OP.
Furthermore - if you don’t have the funds to afford your meal (and if you’re leaving a 4% tip, or an 8% tip, or a 12% tip for anything more than appalling service, then your not affording your meal) you need to go to a restaruant that costs less.
If you hate tipping, fine - eat at Subway, McDonalds, or cook your meal at home.
FWIW - I consider 20% to be my “usual” tip for adequate service. If I get great service, or I’m a regular then I tip more. If I get really bad service, I’ll tip less, all the way down to no tip at all, so all of you that are suggesting that I’m some deranged server that demands a 100% tip or I’m horking in your food, you are clearly projecting.
You seem to be comparing how hard they both work. That’s nice, but it’s not really applicable to how much their time is worth. A ditch digger arguably works harder than a computer programmer but the programmer gets paid more because his time is more valuable. He has skills that demand a higher compensation.
Basically anybody can get a job waitressing at a truck stop. In order to get a job at a high end restaurant you need to have a resume and experience. You need to have charm, class and knowledge of fine wines and foods. Clearly the high end waiter is worth more than the truck stop one. I’m surprised that anyone would debate this.
Might I ask what you consider a “high end” place? I’m thinking of restaurants like “Top of the Hub” and “The Oak Room” in the Boston area. Dinner for two with drinks is about $175 at either of those places.
And you seem to be assuming that working at a busy low-end place requires simply hard work and no skill. I can assure you that’s not the case.
Generally true.
Well, you need to be able to demonstrate the appearance of those things for the duration of your shift.
I’m often struck by how many people think that this is a very difficult thing to come by. The ability to talk knowledgeably about such things does not constitute rocket science. I’ve met plenty of waiters at low end places who could easily master all this stuff if they were able (or chose) to seek work at a higher level place.
That’s because you apparently assume that everyone else must share a single notion of what constitutes value.
Well, i guess that because i disagree with you then i must be some sheltered ignoramus who thinks Olive Garden is the height of fine dining, right?
I worked at a place in England where dinner for two was £80 without drinks. And that was over ten years ago, so i’m sure the prices at equivalent places are considerably more expensive now. I’ll leave you to do the math and work that out in US dollars. I worked at a similarly priced establishment in Vancouver, BC.
Jesus Christ, you are a piece of work. Accusations of lacking reading comprehension skills seem particularly rich when you accuse the OP of being an asshole and a shitty tipper and he has given every indication that he tips pretty much at the standard level.
Practically every person who has spoken out about not liking the tipping procedures has also indicated that they still do tip at standard rates because that is the social norm. How going along with something that you don’t personally agree with because you know to not do so would cause others harm makes one an asshole is beyond me. How spewing hate filled bullshit against people who have a differing opinion makes one an asshole is abundantly more clear.
We tip in Canada. We also make minimum wage as a waiter or waitress. Minimum wage in Canada is the same for every job. Minimum wage by province in Canada.
Well, apparently he doesn’t if he considers 20% to be a “generous” tip. It’s not a generous tip, it’s a regular tip. And if you do the normal, socially acceptable thing, but then bitch and complain about what a hardship it is, and you’re so hard done by because you actually have to act like a normal person when you’re interacting in the world, then your an asshole. Furthermore, if he’s regularly having waitstaff yell at him - an experience that no one else seems to share, he probably IS an asshole.
That being said - I AM a piece of work. A fine, fine piece of work, thankyouverymuch.
I would just like to say, that in the exquisitely fine restaurants I eat in, once I have finished my meal, I often request a cigar, and a seat by the fire. Upon receiving said seat, and said cigar, I will often pull out a roll of $1,000 bills, and peel off 7 or 8 to give to the waiter or waitress. Typically, I am so beloved in such restaurants, that the waitstaff are constantly offering me oral sex. I have to decline of course, I am simply a magnanimous man, and do not want my kindness and generosity confused with such things.
The waitstaff see me when I enter the restaurant and say things like, “Hello Mr. Frog, it’s so good to see you again,” and, “How is it possible for a human being to be so ripped and handsome?” I am often offered the very best table, with the very best lighting. My food is excellently prepared, and quickly served at my table. This is because I am a generous man, who is enjoyed as good company by the good men and women alike of such establishments.
I definately consider 20% generous. 15% is standard in my way of thinking. Often I’ll be closer to 20% though because I always round up.
So you accuse someone of being an asshole, get called on it, and then just blatantly make up accusations (where the hell did regularly being yelled at by waitstraff come from?!) to try and justify your smear.
It is perfectly justified to complain about something you feel obligated to do, especially on a message board group specifically dedicated to complaining! Are people who complain about high taxes assholes too? Okay, fair enough. New rule, if you complain about anything you feel obligated to do, you’re an asshole. How about people in certain third world countries who are regularly stopped by cops soliciting bribes? Complain? Why, you’re an asshole! I mean, they could just not leave the house, right?
Actually, that was my main reason for posting here. I used to post on the boards a few years ago, before it became a pay system. I left for a while and I was surprised when I came back. I normally stuck to GQ (the only forum that really can’t be found on another forum for free), but, heck, if I’m going to shell out $15/yr, I figured I should at least check out the other forums!
I haven’t finished reading this thread yet, but the Pit seems pretty fun. It’s a pity I’ve always ignored it.
MHO:
Comments: (-) not enough posts to warrant joining
GQ: (++) my favorite
GD: (+) smarter bunch than average Internet, but still can be found elsewhere
CS: (–) I’m far too uncultured to appreciate this
IMHO/MPSIMS: (-) The whole internet is a giant IMHO/MPSIMS board
Pit: (+) pretty fun so far, and pretty active
I’ve often wondered about this. My husband and I eat out quite frequently-- three or four times a week. We travel frequently, so we’ve eaten in resturants all over the country. Never, ever have I had a waitperson yell at me, nor have I ever had such bad service that didn’t want to leave a tip, or left a resturant outraged.
There have, of course, been occasions when I thought the service could have been better, or when the waitperson forgot this or that, but it’s always amounted to a minor inconvenience, not something over which I would march out, vowing never to return.
