DoggyDunnit: Then I’d appreciate a response to post 33, and the first part of post 35 that you didn’t respond to. I just don’t see how actively working to elect people who are against the things you believe in make those things MORE likely to come about.
Under Trump, things are considerably likely to become much worse.
You think you’re a third-class citizen now? Guess what? You can vote. You can marry. It’s legal for you to have consensual sex with your adult partner.
All of that is in jeopardy now.
But hey, maybe you’ll be able to comfort yourself while serving your prison sentence, with your pink triangle stitched onto your uniform, that you sure gave what-for to those college kids who were mean to you.
Get over your Brexit nonsense before you go around lecturing other people, jackass. You’ve got your own boiled ham in a wig over there,.
You are taking a Devil’s Gambit. Maybe things wouldn’t have gotten significantly better under Clinton (though she had substantial plans to improve healthcare, race relations, LGBTQ rights, and taxes), but they almost certainly wouldn’t have gotten worse for you. And over time the party would’ve likely gotten more progressive as the policies became incorporated into the American lifestyle. Slowly, but it would march that way.
Trump, could, theoretically act as a wake up call and cause the Dems to pay super hard attention to their demographics and cause us to have some progressive renaissance. Certainly, I’m not going to be content to just sit back and vote anymore without contributing to the process more actively.
But, there’s also NO GUARANTEE this will work. There’s a real chance the dems will instead reach the opposite conclusion entirely and make a hard turn right in order to usurp power. Y’know, like they did in the '90s, and who knows exactly what shape that will take.
And, most importantly, this gambit makes things actively worse for people for 4 years, which is much, much worse than the status quo.
Like, look. I’m going to give Trump a chance. Maybe things will be okay. They’re probably not going to be as bad as I’m imagining it in the moment. I’m willing to begrudgingly stand behind my President and hope he does a good job and truly represents all Americans like he claimed he would in his speech tonight. But that does not for one second mean I condone this choice. Even if he turns out to be the greatest president we’ve ever had, given the information we had today he never should have been elected.
(bolding mine)
:smack:
Y’all’re taking Godwin’s law to a whole 'nother level. It’s insane.
Let me make something crystal clear here: Trump and company will not be able to get anywhere close to how Hitler was, for multiple reasons. If he tried to go as far as the kinda shit you’re talking about, or even as far as shit like “forced gay conversion therapy” as Jragon mentioned, there’d be widespread riots. A second civil war. The country would grind to a halt and catch fire. And ya know what? If that happens, good - the country needs a big shakin’ up to get on a good track.
At least a few other countries would fling open their doors to American refugees, too. I’ll happily be among 'em if that’s the case. I have good buddies in the UK, Ireland, Australia, Canada, and Finland, so doubly happy of any of them are amongst the list. I’d be happy to finally get to live in something resembling civilization.
I don’t see why you think so, when enough people believe in and like what he says to elect him President. One could argue that the number of people who would riot would be outweighed enough by those who’d sit back, watch the National Guard spray the crowd with bullets, and sneer that those libtards got what they deserved, and change the channel that nothing would change.
And that’s not even considering the idea that Trump’s election could shift ALL mainstream politics towards him, for reasons mentioned already.
Okay, fine, they probably won’t do mandatory gay conversion therapy. I’ll admit that’s a stretch, but there’s a lot of bullshit in the direction they can pull that’s plenty odious but not enough to cause the Gay Pride Parade to become the Gay Firebomb Riot. Don’t forget we’re dealing with the party that wanted mandatory ultrasounds and patronizing consultations for any woman who wants an abortion. And while not as grandiose as all that, it would be tremendously unsurprising to see a federal “bathroom bill”, or a more general “religious freedom” bill. Would it supersede state law? Probably not but with a conservative USSC who really knows?
Also, a lot of subtle things. Trans people were finally recently able to more easily get passports and social security info amended. That could all easily disappear overnight.
You know what’s sad?
None of you would have the guts to have this conversation face to face.
I talk about this stuff all the time face to face so…
I have conversations like this face to face all the time. When dealing with red staters, my rule is: I will avoid politics and keep it light. I’m willing to talk about baseball, or the weather, or fly fishing, whatever; but if you bring up politics and express your opinion, I will express mine.
With someone who might be carrying his Second Amendment solution?
I wish i could counter this 
I was too flummoxed to pit the uk at the time.
Actually they didn’t want the mob voting for president.
Just responding to the first part of this post, and not trying to pick a fight with Jragon, but I just want to express a conviction I’ve been forming instead of getting any goddamned sleep. Anyway, at the institutional level–the Democratic Party, liberals, the left, progressives, whatever you want to call us–I don’t think this is right.
I think the Democrats need to adopt a total scorched earth policy, right now. They need to copy the Republican playbook from '08, and declare that their first and only goal is to make Trump a one-term President, or ideally less than that–cripple his presidency, win the mid-terms, and impeach him and remove him from office. It seems likely Clinton will take the popular vote–she appears to have a very slim popular vote lead at the moment–so simply declare that Trump isn’t really a legitimate President (because democracy!), and, oh yeah, he’s utterly unfit for the office of President of the United States in every conceivable way (because, holy shit, everything!).
Right now, the only thing the Democrats have going for them on an institutional level is that the Republicans don’t have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, so they need to filibuster everything. Repealing Obamacare? Filibuster it. Building the fucking wall? Filibuster it. A Trump appointment to the Supreme Court? Filibuster it. A Trump appointment to the executive branch? Filibuster that too. A non-binding Congressional resolution that, “Hey, Ivanka seems nice”? Filibuster it. Don’t let them raise the debt ceiling–and if Trump’s tax plans are put in place, in spite of everything the Democrats can do, then the debt will soar–shut down the government, burn the whole place down. Granted, if the Republicans (with utterly shameless hypocrisy) go full nuclear and abolish the filibuster, I don’t know what the Dems could do, other than hope for 2018. But even if the Republicans just drop a tactical nuke and bring back old-fashioned filibusters (the way policy wonks have frequently suggested), then the Dems need to start packing Depends[sup]®[/sup] and practicing their reading-the-phone-book-in-relays skills.*
*And yes, in the past I have repeatedly expressed my opinion on this message board that the filibuster should be abolished. I don’t give a fuck.
This country cannot afford a two-party system consisting of a cutthroat utterly ruthless party that is batshit crazy to the point of having elected Donald Trump to the Presidency (and is pretty fucked up otherwise); and a moderate centrist party that tries to be adult and right-minded and somehow make the best of things by working with President Donald fucking Trump. Because that “system” has gotten us a sane, moderate, two-term President, who in spite of massive obstructionism actually managed to get a few (limited, compromised, watered-down) things done, mainly in the first half of his first term, and even won re-election–but now must face the prospect that every single accomplishment he made in eight years is about to be undone, and probably a lot worse than that. Because mindless obstructionism works, and the Grand Old Party of Mindless Obstructionism just elected an unfathomably bad candidate as President of the United States, yet incumbents in the House and Senate still mostly won re-election, just like always, even though Congress as an institution is literally less popular than cockroaches, meaning the Grand Old Party of Mindless Obstructionism and President Dumpster Fire now controls the entire federal government (not to mention most of the state governments).
So fuck them. Chuck Schumer needs to start sharpening up the knives, and if he can’t hack that, the Democratic Senatorial caucus needs to dump him from the leadership, immediately.
(Oh, and fuck the Democrats for having lost the goddamned election to Donald fucking Trump!)
The filibuster isn’t carved in stone and could be removed as an option.
And yet, ironically enough, all the carefully undemocratic features they built in to the Constitution to prevent the mob from electing a narcissistic demagogue who tells the mob what they want to hear (regardless of if it makes any sense or not), may have wound up electing a narcissistic demagogue who tells the mob what they want to hear (regardless of if it makes any sense or not) as President of the United States. Clinton apparently has a slim lead in the national popular vote total.
Yeah, I know. I did mention that possibility in paragraph #3.
I agree with all of this.
A lot of those original anti-mob protections have been removed.
Yeah. I missed it the first through. Sorry about that. I’m too sleepy at the moment.