ABS systems don’t need to lock the tires to test traction. The road exerts a force back into the wheels, the sensor measures the force, and can gauge the amount of traction available.
Not as much as you do apparently but I have lived in Chicago most of my life so have had plenty of opportunity to drive in snow.
ETA: And please note in the test cited in my last post ABS out performed people nearly across the board with only a few exceptions (and the exceptions, when averaged out among all the tests still showed ABS to be better).
Maybe you are some god-like threshold braker able to do it in your sleep perfectly every time. Bully for you. Fact is if you can you are an outlier. Far more people cannot brake as well as you and ABS in almost all instances is better. The few times it isn’t do not outweigh the times it does help.
Does anybody read their car manuals anymore?
Most of these questions about traction control (and about turning it off if you get stuck) are in the fucking manual. Read it, nimrods.
And anyone who insists they can stop their ABS-equipped car better “by gently tapping the brakes” rather than relying on ABS is totally and completely stuffed to the gills with runny fecal material.
There are studies on this, you know. Endless studies, which easily trump your supposed experience in stopping better by not using ABS. Do you have any idea how much time and effort goes into studies before any car manufacturer includes a safety item?
I not talking about ‘Gently tapping the brakes’ Knorf. Done it and measured the differences. (did you read the thread?) :shrug:. I can (and you probably can too) outstop ABS on snow.
I’d rather have a little less power, then end up in the ditch… 1 second lost versus getting the tow truck or worse, the hospital…
We had a shit load of black ice this winter, driving my wifes car without TC vs mine with TC… we picked mine… much safer, we arrived every time without a skid to the pole or the opposing traffic.
My car behaved much better on the road then hers.
As much as I might like to say, that I’m a safe and good driver, but I can not react to black ice at 40-50 mph in 0.1sec.
However, TC is crap off-road or when stuck in mud… but I drive on roads and never really had this problem. However, it also depends on how “intelligent” your TC is.
Sure, on snow it might take longer to stop with ABS, yet without it, I would have bashed into the idiot driving in front of me this morning, when he made a full stop (for whatever unclear reason) at 70 mph on an open road. All I had time to do was stamp the brakes… lots of hopping and bopping, but I stopped while being able to stir the car.
The good thing about ABS is: People panic brake and ABS allows you to keep control over the car, in wet, dry & icy conditions.
On snow, just drive slower… with or without ABS
:dubious:
No way. Been there, done that, and no way.
Did you read any of the links Whack-a-Mole’s posted above?
It’s far more likely that you’re lying or confused than that you have a secret method that consistently allows you to stop more quickly on snow than a modern ABS.
Yep I saw Whack-a-Moles links. I also tested this and measured it. I can stop quicker on snow using threshold braking instead of ABS. Both my car and my Wife’s.
Nothing secret about it. Let the ABS kick in, and then back off a little. Do that a number of times. ABS does about 10% of the braking. It’s most noticeable when you get down below 30 mph or so. Way.
How much driving on snow and Ice do you do Knorf? It’s winter 6 months out of the year here. A co-worker that went to the Bridgestone winter driving school says he can do the same. It’s part of the curriculum.
I love how you keep assuming that people who doubt you don’t drive in slow. I have to drive in slow plenty, have driven in snow my entire life as a licensed driver, and I have practiced driving in snow (recovering a spin, braking, starting, etc.) with every car I own.
I stand by my previous post.
Just trying to come up with reasons why other people don’t experience this. I also stand by my posts.
Even though I knew I was stopping quicker, I went so far as testing this and measuring the distances.
Do you have front or rear wheel drive?
Is traction control that important for safety in a front-wheel-drive car? I can understand a RWD can spin out if you spin the wheels, but a FWD just plows a little bit. If I unexpectedly hit black ice in a turn, I’m probably going to have trouble whether or not I’m on the gas. I drive a FWD econobox without traction control I don’t think I’ve ever had any trouble that related to wheelspin, except in snow where you may want the wheels to spin anyway.
If you have to practice it, you don’t drive it enough to comment on real world months long snow driving conditions that happens year after year. At the very least you are in no position to comment on my experiences.
You’ve practiced. Good for you. You think your practicing makes me full of shit. Next time you slip around in the parking lot, remember there are people that do this every day in the real world.
It’s interesting. I did bitch about TC/VDC and ABS in this thread. The experts are dubious but providing good information. The others are getting defensive and calling me names.
There is plenty of information about the benefits of threshold braking over ABS. Especially on snow. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is one.
This thread really did belong in MPSIMS.
I traded the Mustang GT for a 4x4 Ranger yesterday. It has the older traction control that bogs the engine so you lose power. It automatically turns off in 4-Low. I turned it off in 2wd and it spun first, then I shifted hard into second and it spun for a second… then bogged and the light came on. I read the manual and apparently it has a new stability control that straightens it out in second, so “traction control” is still on after first gear.
Wow, you’re all over the road with vehicle choices. (pun intended) 
On my 06 Pathfinder, VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) is also off in Low Range.
It stays on through all gears and I suspect it does in the Ranger as well. I believe it uses more than wheel slip to determine slippage or sliding. Other sensors (steering angle sensors, accelerometers) determine if the rear end is overtaking the front.
For this system to ‘work’ the engine power can also be limited. That can bite you in the ass when trying to work your way up a snow covered slope, or when you need to punch it when you enter onto a high speed road from a secondary snow packed road.
A little slip and you get -
(Mississippi 1) WARNING SLIP
(Mississippi 2) WARNING SLIP
It takes about two seconds to calm down and allow you to accelerate. It’s doing its job, but when you drive on snow as often as not, it can be annoying.
In certain circumstances I’ve just got to remember to turn the system off (twice a day).
As I wait for the 6 wheel drive grader to clear the road. I took a picture. It’s stunning to me that so few of you know what it means to drive on snow.
It may have twisted a little in second gear and I didn’t notice it. It will probably be next year before I get to see how it acts in snow or ice. Based on my past, I would normally find some deep mud to see how it acts with no traction, but I don’t want to clean it! I’ll just have to hope a friend gets something stuck before too long 
Every car handles a bit differently, so getting a new car and taking it around a wet or snowy lot to learn how it handles in different traction situations and where its limits are is good advice for beginner and expert driver alike.
Yeah, sure. That was a bit over the top.
It’s just aggravating to have people insinuate that you are lying about personal experiences. I have a LOT of snow driving experience. I get practice every day 6 months out of the year on the mountain roads that lead to my house. Seriously, I have to lock in 4x4 6 months out of the year or I would not get up my drive. Other people have lawn mowers, I have a plow truck. It’s chained up on all four wheels and even that has been stuck twice. That’s the kind of snow we get. You can imagine how long it lasts.
The signs on my road read ‘DANGER Snow Plows Working Against Traffic’, and ‘DANGER Ice Flows.’
It can be a bitch, but I love it.
No one doesn’t believe you drive in snow.
What some of us don’t believe are your claims, which are contrary to every expert cite posted, that you are doing some sort of threshold braking better than a computer. And there’s no way you’re going to convince me, no matter how many times you point out that you live in the mountains, and you drive in snow a lot.
Now I don’t drive in snow every day, but I have plenty of experience in the snow and ice, off road and on. I’ve driven through fresh snow, slush, hardpack, etc, in several different vehicles from 4wd to ATV to daily driver sedan. And I’m not talking about D.C. snow an inch deep, either. It’s not like I am writing this from the middle of the desert or something.
I don’t see why you are so sensitive about the whole thing, are you somehow diminished if we don’t just accept your expertise, even though some of us might have a bit of experience ourselves?
To me, it’s the same thing as you telling me your thoughts about the bible based on conversations between you and Jesus. That’s fine for you, but I don’t care how many heart to hearts you’ve had with the big J, I’m not going to believe you. In my experience, ABS beats people, period. I’m not going to believe anyone who says they are better than an ABS system unless it’s a crap system from the olden days or they are one of the top drivers in the world.
So yes, I accept that you drive on snow a lot. I just don’t believe your claim that you brake better than ABS, unless you have an utter crap system or you drive only in the one condition (super deep loose snow) where you want to lock your brakes for a snowplow effect.