We were whooshed? We can’t hear your voice or see your facial expression, so if you’re just joking it would help to use the smilies.
And here’s a link to a definition of slash which may answer your question.
It’s called slash because of the slash marks: m/m meaning two males or f/f meaning two females.
The slash stands for the “/” character that is used to describe pairings within stories. e.g. Xander/Spike or Mulder/Krycek. And I’m glad to hear you were being ironic, though I must say it didn’t come off that way at all.
I apologize if I’ve lost my senes of humor after Rexdart’s tedious condemnation of all Internet fandoms ever. For some reason, I wasn’t in a very “ironic” mood.
No hurt, no foul, pep. I ain’t delicate.
I think RexDart owes everyone, but especially Guin, an apology. I say this not because I am a great slash fan, because I am not. I have fairly little interest in fanfiction. But as a wise man once said, “Just because it’s the Pit doesn’t mean you have to be a jerk”, and I’m calling jerk on RexDart here. There’s no excuse for behavior of that sort.
elucidator, I apologize for scolding you. I didn’t realize you were being ironic. I’m the type who needs to see the smilies to realize the post is meant to be in jest.
hugs
No apology is forthcoming.
Yeah, you don’t have to be critical in the Pit just because it’s the Pit. But there was no magic rule in the OP forcing this thread to become a mini-party for slash fiction authors and readers. This is not CS. I didn’t go crash some slash-fiction fan thread in CS, I posted here in the Pit under a broader heading.
The topic was about somebody who had come to a slash fiction site and voiced disgust and claimed people who wrote those stories were “going to hell.” I did none of those things. I didn’t go to their websites and say this stuff. I said it here, where we’re allowed to express our opinions. My opinion happens to be that slash is weird, creepy, and potentially harmful, and almost certainly a copyright infringement.
I may be the only person in this thread that voiced that opinion, but try walking up to a random guy on the street and saying, “Hey, I write storys about Tom Paris and Chakotay from ST:Voyager having gay sex and starting a family, and I publish them on the internet.” You’re gonna find that many, many people find that weird and creepy, and not just because of the gay thing. To most of the people I know, that would sound obsessive and creepy. But even if I had no support for my opinion, why should that make me apologetic for voicing it?
And Guin is most certainly not getting an apology. She read my opinion and decided the right thing to do was say “fuck off.” I figured the gloves were off and told her my general opinion of her, and she replied again in her typical dismissive, derisive, and holier-than-thou way. I think we’re doing just fine if we end up settling on mutual dislike. It’s not going to ruin my day, and I know it’s not going to ruin hers. I value some of her insights on religion in GD, maybe there’s been once or twice she found one of my posts valuable, and there’s no reason people have to like each other for that.
About RexDart’s point about the actors getting creeped out over some character they played going on to ‘star’ in other people’s sexual fantasies…
Uh. Reality check time. Has it occured to you that there is a REASON that they cast great looking guys and gals in parts? Given a choice between an average looking girl who can act and a hot looking girl who can act, which do you suppose gets the nod for the lead in a romantic role? Why was it Tom Cruise in the Mission Impossible role and not some geeky guy with bad teeth, pimples, a funny haircut and a flabby body?
WE ARE SUPPOSED TO FANTASIZE ABOUT THEM.
The actors may enjoy the fact that zillions of other people think they are hot, or they may regard it merely as part of the general fame they are after, or even as just a minor side-effect for the acting career they want…but they DO know going in that pursuing a career that demands putting their physical selves on display means that others will look at them. And hopefully find them attractive, because otherwise they won’t get many more roles.
Actors may justifiable get worried about psychotics stalking them. I don’t believe for a minute they lose sleep over the idea that someone who just watched them play a sexy part had gone on to fantasize further about the character. Whether in the privacy of that person’s head or on a website.
Because when you needlessly insult other people, the decent thing to do is apologize as soon as you come to your senses. I think you could have expressed your distaste for slash fanfiction without calling people “sick weirdos” and the like.
Yeah, but most people have weird hobbies. Sure, I’d be creeped out by some random person walking up to me in the street (or the comic book store, even) and talking about hot Enterprise man-love.
But I don’t think an interest, however prurient, in Star Trek is any worse than memorizing play rosters and stats for every baseball team in America (like one guy I know), or following the careers and personal lives of all the members of multiple progressive rock bands (like another guy I know), or an inordinate obsession with porn videos (like ANOTHER guy I know), or gaming, or Civil War recreation, or stamp collecting, or train set construction, or Royals-worship, or following celebrities…
What I’m saying is that everyone who isn’t insanely boring has interests and hobbies. And reading and writing homosexual erotica is just as enjoyable to the right kind of person as, I don’t know, as building a perfect replica of 1950s Jarrell, TX for a little train to run through.
Again, it’s totally your perogative to think that slash is creepy and gross. I for one think that people who go to bars, get massively intoxicated, and pick each other up are unhealthy and disturbing. And you’re perfectly within your rights to say so; I’m not arguing with that.
We’ve hashed out all the legal and moral issues with it. It doesn’t bother the original authors enough for them to address it very much, and it doesn’t bother the actors of the movies and shows involved, apparently at all if you listen to what their interviews say. IANAL, but I DO deal with copyright law very intimately every day (Ninja/Copyright Act of 1976? Is the Copyright Act also female?) at a publishing company. I know what it’s like to dance with the wacky and amusing vagaries of copyright law. I have a copy of it on my desk.
Copyright is as concrete as you make it. Fanficcers are on very shaky ground, legally, but precedent shows that however shaky their ground may be, the authors and publishers are, for the most part and for whatever reason, not willing to make an issue of it. So they may be breaking the law, but even in the nastiest cases I don’t think they’ve ever even been fined for it. It’s one of the vagaries of that law that is almost never prosecuted, just like my occasional habit of driving 5 mph over the speed limit.
RexDart, um, what would you say about Will and Grace fan fiction, where the authors decide to pair up Will and Grace?
Will’s supposed to be a homosexual. Yet sometimes, authors play around and change that. Is THAT offensive, since the character is supposed to be gay?
And you still have yet to address my point on historical figures.
Mmm… Harry Kim slash…
Esprix
Hey Esprix: Harry Kim/Hikaru Sulu AU crossover slash 
Meh, Sulu never did it for me. But thanks for giving me those links - it’s hard to work when I’m TURNED ON, thankyouverymuch!
Esprix
Party? Hey, that’s a great idea! Thanks, RexDart!
Now, what helps make a party fun? Games! Yeah! So go on over to the Britslash site, but make sure you are old enough to participate and have no objection to slash, then click on “Enter”. Then scroll down until you see the part about the “Instant Slash” game. It’s fun! Requires Java, and it prompts you for names and items and some other fun stuff which I won’t reveal here. After you answer the questions, it will instantly generate a slash story for you.
I tried this several times because after the first time when I read the slash story I created, I realized it needed some fine tuning. But it’s fun!
There is an entire site dedicated to Duran Duran fan fiction. Including slash. It used to be a website for a print 'zine.
When the owner of said site (which I will share with folks through email if they’re interested but won’t share here) started up the 'zine and the site she first emailed Duran’s (then) management and asked them to clear both with the band.
She got her clearance; from later comments by all the band members, they seem more amused by it than anything else. Certainly they don’t seem threatened by fictional representations of themselves, which have nothing to do with the real men, doing various sexual and non-sexual things in other people’s work.
Heck, their bassist used to have a subscription to the 'zine, or so it is rumored. In any event, he’s on record as saying that “anything that encourages people to be creative” is okay by him.
And, I know a lot of the women who have stories on the site IRL. Most of them have real lives, husbands and jobs and don’t spend their entire lives obsessing about their fanfic. At least two of them are published authors. At least four of them write fanfic to “unblock” when they’re blocked on their regular writing.
None of them are foolish enough to think that the characters in these pieces of fiction are anything like the members of Duran in real life. The Durans are just convenient “templates” to hang a story on.
And I think I’ll stop babbling now.
Tell ya what, RexDart. Next time I start a thread, I’ll carefully state the magic rule at the bottom, like so:
Don’t be a jerk.
You’ve repeatedly made variations on the following statement…
[snipped anecdote for brevity]
Now to clarify before I ask. I’ve read maybe only one story of either slash or fanfic, so it’s not like I’m someone who actively seeks it out on a daily basis. OTOH, I see no harm in it. So, I’m simply curious to know your take on the above.
Whenever you mention the harm this can do to real people, do you know any specific instances? Have you read somewhere that, say, David Duchovny or his loved ones are offended/repulsed/creeped out? Has anyone ever taken a Lars Ulrich approach and filed suit against these writers and/or closed down websites over it? In other words, is this just something you’re assuming they’d feel or do you have a cite? I do understand that it would bother you, but you are basically lobbying on their behalf. So if there IS evidence that celebrities hate this, I’m sure we’d all be interested to hear it.
Lastly, in my limited knowledge about artists and what they produce, I thought most felt that once their product reached the consumer level, they no longer had control over said public’s interpretation, use or even distortion of it. Kind of like people insisting songs or stories or movies mean something different than what the originator claims. Although, I’ve personally never seen anything but an offering of amusement over such misconceptions and a general attitude of 'that’s how it goes, ‘cause once it leaves me, it ain’t my baby no more.’ I guess I just thought everyone knew this/felt this way who chose to get in that line of business. I know I would. (Disclaimer: With the notable exception being of actual copyright infringement, of course. Not talking about that and obviously, that should be legally dealt with, etc.)
Hope it’s ok to seek out clarification from you on this matter. Thanks.
BTW, the Roy Orbison wrapped in clingfilm story that Rex referred to as a disgusting creepy evil slash story etc. is an obvious parody and a very funny one at that. It isn’t real slash fiction. It’s a joke.
Did you even read that story Rex? I can’t believe that anybody who actually read it would consider it to be anything other than a witty and totally ludicrous slashfic parody, which is what it is.
Personally, I’m not that crazy about a lot of slash because it deviates from canon too much, (as some other people have said) ymmv, but I dig the creativity that goes into it. I think that is wonderful! so viva the slashficcers! yay etc.
Well, I don’t feel that I was being a jerk by stating my opinion.
Well, IIRC George Lucas (Star Wars) is very hostile to people using and corrupting his characters in fan fiction stories. (Only he gets to corrupt his characters ) I think that’s his right to protect his trademarks and his characters, because he created them. I don’t know which actors may feel they are harmed by this, but you can probably presume that any fundie Protestant actors would feel they were harmed by the gay storylines at least. Perhaps actors and actresses hold back from being overly critical because they don’t want to harm their relationship with the obsessive fans who will be generating all their autograph signing money on the convention tours.
What these sites and authors are doing now is taking the attitude “well, I’ll keep doing this unless somebody voices objection.” I think they ought to be taking the attitude “I won’t do this until the relevant people voice their approval.” Silence should not be presumed to be approval.
I mentioned an example like that in one of my earlier posts. If I created a gay character, I would not appreciate anybody “turning him straight” so to speak. He’s gay, and gay men simply do not find women attractive, to twist that around sounds too much like what my fundie Baptist friends might say. Gay men face a unique situation in the world, and while their sexuality is not their only characteristic, it’s still an essential one.
I’m a little iffy on historical figures. I recall hearing plans for some historical drama about Abe Lincoln and thinking how unfair that is, because neither Lincoln nor any of his friends or family are here to assert the truth about his image. But then again, they aren’t here to be offended by it either. (I don’t recall if there was anything at all controversial about the project – I don’t remember if this was the gay-Lincoln thing or some other idea – so I can’t be more specific.) I suppose that as long as he said nothing that he had not been documented to say, in the precise situations in which he in fact said it, then it would be no different than a historian’s text.
I think something like that movie Thirteen Days, which would be real historical drama, may be on somewhat firm ground since the Kennedy family is still around to protect JFK and RFK’s images and one can and should get their approval.
In summary, I’m not really sure what to think of historical figures being used in dramatic stories. On one hand, it makes history come to life and may get more people interested in history. But on the other hand, it puts words into the mouths of real people, and has the potential to drastically distort who those people really were, and I’m not sure anyone really has the right to do that. If the historical figure is still alive, his/her approval should be required. Otherwise any living relatives who knew the figure should be consulted. In the absence of that, there is nobody to harm.