Why do women like "Slash Fiction" man on man action? Kirk/Spock! That's just wrong!

Per this article

Fantasitc Voyage - A journey into the wide, wild world of slash fiction

That’s just wrong! - So wrong!

Haven’t we had lots of threads about this before?

I don’t really go in for such things myself, but I had a lot of friends in college who did. In a big, big way. One was very well-read when it came to both slash and criticism/interpretations/defense of slash, and she also had a good sense of humor about the whole thing. I remember her saying it was a shame some women felt the need to write long essays justifying their love of slash as being about “subverting the dominant paradigm” or something, instead of admitting that it was really just about what got them hot. And “No man ever had to write an article to justify watching girl-on-girl porn!”

So that’s why. Straight women who like slash probably do so for roughly the same reasons that many straight men like to see two chicks goin’ at it.

Watching (or envisioning) two members of the opposite sex going at it stimulates people in a variety of ways:

MEN: I think George Carlin put it best – when a guy watches porn, he’s watching the girl. The girl takes her clothes off, the girl gets you goin’… and then some OTHER GUY walks in and starts having SEX with her! Consequently, girl-girl action is twice as much girl, with much less jealousy and frustration!

WOMEN: A woman once told me she liked guy-guy slash because it was terrific sex without her personal involvement. She could stay detached, not having to identify with a woman in the actual act, and get off to all these hot guys.

Works for me.

I imagine the same reason a lot of men like the seven billion Buffy/Faith slash fics out there.

Slash writer checking in, but the basic question already seems to be answered: I like the thought of seeing two guys together, much as many, many guys like the thought of seeing two women together. The main difference as I see it is that women like me don’t have a billion-dollar porn industry ready to cater to our sexual tastes, so we have to do it all ourselves.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with the above. Heroines in romances are always perfect and annoying. There’s also a theory that women like male/male pairings because the relationship is more equal; you don’t have the inequality that seems to be inherent in many male/female relationships. There may be something to this, I find the few het pairings I like involve very strong women (i.e. Buffy/Spike).

Also, it’s not a phenomena limited to North America. In Japan, they tell the stories though comics, instead of writing and it’s a commercial product: women writing comics about male love affairs that are sold to other women. Here’s a recent article on the subject.

Darn it, why is there no large market for porn-made-for-women? If you ladies would just go out there and do your patriotic duty by buying more porn, I’m sure this problem would fix itself!

What about gay porn?

Gay porn isn’t the same thing. There was a great Aestheticism article on the imagery of m/m erotica for men a long time ago that I ought to hunt down and won’t, about how gay porn is about inviting the viewer in - single-shot images for men are usually of men making eye contact with the viewer. The idea in the article is that women who like it don’t want to participate, they want to observe.

Personally I dig it as an arena for the personal power dymanics - give me seme on seme, really. Oh, and it’s hot. But when it’s good, it’s hot and interesting.

Plus, a lot of slash is extremely character-specific. For example, the ladies who write Kirk/Spock want to see those two go at it, not two anonymous guys.

Yeah, it’s really different. I’m a big fan of the yaoi manga and have a lot of books. The manga written for women has a lot of character development, pretty slender men, and, a lot of times, not much sex. It’s the relationship that’s important. I do have a couple of manga written for gay men and the differences are obvious. The characters are all big beefy guys with huge penises and they get right to bonkin’ within the first couple of pages.

I’m with you, astro, it’s just wrong to read about Kirk and Spock goin’ at it. Wrong wrong wrong. No way do I want to read about that. I have no interest in reading about my favorite television characters behaving in such a different way, so different that they (to me) are no longer recognizable as my favorite television characters. There’s zero appeal to me, and I daresay zero appeal for you either.

However, that’s part of what fan fiction is about. People write what they want to see happen, even if it goes against what the original creators (Gene Roddenberry, etc.) had in mind. And on that level, it’s no big deal. After all, there are a ton of fan fics that write about “crossovers” (Star Trek and Star Wars in the same story, MacGyver and Stargate SG-1 in the same story) and I love those. But probably not everyone does. To other people, “crossovers” may seem wrong and stupid, but then, they don’t have to read such stories! 'Cause it’s fan fiction!

Yes, I wish some of the fans would just admit this!

I used to illustrate fan fiction and was routinely asked to illustrate slash, but I always refused. I saw no reason to illustrate stories that I had no interest in reading and could not (personally) identify with. But some slash authors really wanted me to illustrate their stories and would try to give me these persuasive speeches about how they really thought Kirk and Spock (or Luke and Han, Luke and Darth Vader :eek: or whoever) were in love with each other, and see, this little meaningless line here or that throwaway glance in this episode proves it (See? See?!?! :rolleyes: ) but it was all just a bunch of bullshit.

I used to roll my eyes at slash fiction until one of my friends (well-read, very literate, also a TV writer) explained to me what it was about (basically some people like to see two hot guys go at it as an observer). That made more sense to me. I still don’t want to read it and I sure as hell don’t want to illustrate it, though, but hey—fan fiction is for this sort of thing—people write about their own fantasies in these things.

Also, there’s the subtext to consider. I can’t speak for other fandoms, but there’s so much gay subtext in Angel that it very nearly is text. Shoot, Spike/Angel is canon now. But consider this quote from Angelus in 5.08 Destiny

I mean, good Chirst, who hears that little exchange and doesn’t think about sex? Of course, it became canon in ep 21. “We were never intimate…except that one…”

The long smoldering looks between Angel and Lindsay, culminating in “I want you Lindsay.” (We’re talking about subtext here…)

And god, there’s so much between Angel and Wes that you’d have to be blind not to see it. My favorite was the episode where ANgel jumped on Wes naked and held him against the floor for a few second. Or wearing the pink helmet–“It’ll mess up my hair”–and they were the best gay dads ever.

I know that I like the idea of gay sex and will read slash when it comes my way, but one of the main reasons for that is because AFAIC, it’s very nearly canon. Well, some of it is canon now. Angel and Wes were the ambiguously gay duo for awhile there. Contrast that to people who like SPike/Xander in the BtVS fandom. I can’t stand Spander. It would never happen. There’s no sexual tension. THere’s nothing there that would make me believe crazy monkey sex would ever happen. I have to believe a pairing is remotely viable before reading or writing fic, so that means I am discriminate about what slash I enjoy because there are some pairings that is nothing more than “these people are really hot! They should have sex!” But that happens with het fic too…

So in conclusion, Spike/Angel is canon…

Spander would never happen. Spandrew OTOH

“Bloody 'ell! I just told the boy who’s got 'is arms around me 'ow to make a bloomin onion.”

“Uh . . . Spike we’re on a motorcycle. My arms are only around you so I don’t fall off. I’m not gonna fondle you or anything.”

“Why not? Ain’t I good enough for ya?”

“Uh . . . I’m not gay.”

“Sure, an I’m the Bishop of Canterbury. I saw you pack for this trip. I damn well know that ain’t a can of Pringles in your pocket. You’re a young, naive poof who 'as low self esteem and needs reassurance. I’m a much older bisexual man with a fondness for chicken. Now, open me pants and find out the real reason they call me Spike.”

Are you kidding? There is material that can be considered Kirk/Spock slash throughout all of Classic Trek–that the original writers wrote in, and Shatner and Nimoy acted on! They thought nothing of it.

The flirting, the sighing, the Jackie Kennedy-like slumping when the two are together. Then there is the episode ‘Amok Time’, where the two showed more intimacy than Spock and T’Pring could ever muster (‘Jim!’).

Slash that should be more of:





Hell, I found out there was Goofus and Gallant slash by reading this Board!

There’s even Aubrey/Maturin slash.

There’s no end to it.

Yaoi (Japanese slash, as aforementioned) is justified by a lot of girls by saying they don’t like the female characters - so they put the guys together.

If this was an encyclopedia entry, it’d say 'See Relena Peacecraft

barely came out of the Gundam Wing fandom alive

Can’t speak for slash, but there appear to be plenty of college-aged women who really like gay porn. My friend’s roommate is one of them… you can’t move in their dorm without running into videos.

Let’s not even talk about her computer. My friend just finds it funny.

You seem to say this with an air of incredulity. Have you read the same books I have? They’re practically MARRIED to each other!