Some of us have done this already.
The method is, basically, to not care particularly about stuff like “all white people are racists”. It is pretty obviously an attempt to grab the upper hand in a discussion by attempting to put white people on the defensive.
And I don’t care. I neither embrace their definition, nor do I attempt to refute it by listing the ways I am nice to black folks.
Homie don’t play that. 
Regards,
Shodan
On no, now I feel all defensive.
Oh wait no I don’t. I have no guilt as I have done nothing to exasperate the oppression of minorities and neither did my parent and grandparents.
I have in fact probably contributed to a better world so therefore I can feel pretty good about myself in this area. I am not perfect, but I am trying.
Shoot I just strained my shoulder trying to pat myself on the back.
Seriously, why feel collective guilt, it help no one of the human race. Just work toward making the world a little less hateful and that is all most of can do.
Jim
All I can say to this is that I am cheap as hell, and the blacks at work (who are mostly nurse’s aides and don’t make shit) are MUCH more generous tippers than I am(white doctor’s daughter).
Rip me another one for not being a good tipper–but it doesn’t make me a racist. I don’t single out any gender/ethnicity/religion/race. I would like to see the argument that makes these aides who do tip well racist.
I dont’ agree with the odd definition of racist bandied about here. We all judge and categorize people on the street and people in our lives/TV/media etc–that’s human nature, not racist per se. It’s what you do with that pre-judgement that matters. It’s how you react to others, how you treat others, how you contribute to your community and even how you vote/support legislation. Racism is painting with the broadest of brushes and not examining the paint job, IMO.
Do I worry as a woman alone on a train platform at night? You bet–but I worry no matter the skin color of any man sharing that platform–so I guess I am sexist as well. :rolleyes: Do I freak out and call all men rapists and women haters because I have some anxiety over being out alone after dark? Why, no, I don’t.
The example may be different, but the principle is the same.
Okay, I actually was able to connect after all.
The ability to progress higher and faster in his profession. Look up the wage gap right now; even among poor people whites make considerably more than non-whites. Even if he’s working at Walmart or on a construction site or something.
I’m just saying it’s a FACT. I don’t sugarcoat terms just so self-congratulatory liberals/“progressives” won’t get offended.
I mean immediate in that a cop might shoot you just for the color of your skin. Think Amadou Diallo. Whereas a poor white person might be worse off generally, someone’s first impression of him is (usually) going to be more positive than someone’s first impression of a black person. And first impressions count for a lot, especially when dealing with cops, job interviewers, waitresses, etc.
And fame and wealth don’t always equate to privilege. Remember that story about how Danny Glover couldn’t get a cab in New York City? Or maybe it was Savion Glover. I really hate how people pull out the most wacky-ass examples, usually involving celebrities, to try to defeat an argument.
I don’t think this was racist; however, your dialectizing of black people’s speech and discussion about “pheromones” (what the fucking fuck?) certainly was. In fact you’re one of the people in this thread that rose out from “everyday” racism to come across as a full-blown bigot. Congratulations!
Say what now? Whether or not people see their privilege is irrelevant. And I never claimed to not be a racist; I have as much bad programming as everyone else out there.
I don’t think this is quite the same thing. Sex is not a social construct the way that race is (and it IS social; there are only a smattering of genes that determine race/ethnicity… none of which involve your pheromones); a woman has good reason to fear men late at night and I don’t think that fear needs to be examined the way that fearing black people only would need to be examined.
And I am not the only one to use this “odd” definition of racist, by the way. Most of the political radicals I know use it in the exact same way. And so do this editorial and this other editorial. It’s not something I just made up. The second article is especially worth reading. In fact it sums up what I’ve been saying so well that I don’t think I’ll have to post here much anymore. Direct your comments to the article.
P.S. In case anyone was confused, I’m white. So don’t think I’m trying to “gain the upper hand” on account of myself. The things I’m saying about white people are just as true about me.
Why not?
Sure, women have some reason to fear men. But, despite that, the vast majority of men don’t go around attacking women.
Also, our behaviour as men and women is not, as you seem to believe, simply a reflection of our chromosomes, our biology. Gender and gendered behaviour are, in large measure, socially constructed in exactly the same way that you are asserting for race.
But you just keep digging your hole.
Yet if they do, women can be much more physically harmed by it. It is not wrong to fear someone larger and stronger than you.
It’s more biology-based than race is.
Thank you, mhendo --I didn’t want to waste the ATP in replying.
He completely missed the point. It is normal and probably wise to feel some anxiety on a dark train platform if you are a female travelling alone. But that doesn’t make one a misandrist.
same principle is involved with race: one may make assumptions about an ethnicity or race, but unless one refuses to allow for differences within that group, works to curtail equality for that group, speaks untruths about that group etc–one is not a racist.
Is it racist of me to say that hip-hop is a black phenomenon? Is it racist to say that rap is? What about bling?
How much is cultural and how much is race? We could argue that for years–there is no real answer. Again, it’s what one does with the preconceptions that matters.
So, how do we determine what is and is not significant on the nature/nurture spectrum? You seem content to simly define your terms in ways most convenient to your preconceived arguments. Your constant shifting of the criteria in your arguments leads me to believe that you’re not actually interested in a genuine debate on this issue, but are merely content to avoid the actual issues and keep parroting the same idiotic shit.
Now i really am done with you.
I’m beginning to wonder if you understand the way language works. Really. What profession does a dirt-poor unemployed white person in Appalachia have? And please provide a cite that construction sites and Wal-Mart pays whites more than non-whites. And forward it along to the EEOC while you are at it.
No, you said it wasn’t an epithet. An epithet can be true, you know. It is simply a disparaging phrase. Please pay more attention to what words actually mean. To call someone a racist is to use an epithet. Look it up.
Or maybe it was Crispin Glover. Why let facts get in the way of your argument? You suggested that a rich black man would be ‘stopped’ by police (later amended to ‘shot’) before a poor white man would. I provided a counter example. Please explain why it is ‘wacky-ass.’
Ok davenportavenger we benefit from “white privilege” so what? Life isn’t fair boohoohoo get over it. EVERYONE has prejudices not limited to race its just a part of being human, it just comes down to how you let those prjeudices determine your actions. But I know you are morally superior to all of us and would never be prejudiced in any manner…You can shove your guilt trip up your ass.
Well, only white people are police… :rolleyes:
Do have any evidence or data to back up this ‘fact’? Any studies? Any cites at all?
The white/black/Hispanic wage gap, by year. I wasn’t able to find cites for Walmart specifically, but the fact that they have been involved in race-discrimination lawsuits (though admittedly, not as much as they have been involved in sex-discrimination lawsuits) should tell you something. Oh wait, here’s this–Walmart sued for profiling black customers as shoplifters..
From my last post:
And I didn’t say YOU had to feel guilty, just that I DO. I know there’s plenty of people out there living in blissful ignorance, and that’s just dandy for them. More power to everyone who can shrug off systemic racism like it was nothing.
Did you read the articles I linked to? Have any of you read anything by black radical authors? I’m going to take the word of a POC wrt white people being racist a lot more than I’m going to take the word of a white person trying to defend themselves. You’re all just patting yourselves on the back about how good you treat non-whites. Typical liberal wanking. At least most conservatives know they are fucked up.
I don’t know, when someone (like a POC) tells me that there might be a problem with my worldview I tend to listen, especially when I have an idea that they are more affected by the problem than I am. And I’ve had lots of POCs tell me that they think all white people are racist, and I processed this, and realized that it was true. Watching white people talking about race is like seeing a big circle jerk. Nothing really gets accomplished but you all get to go home happy.
That says absolutely nothing about your extraordinary claim that on construction sites and at Wal-Mart whites are paid considerably more than non-whites. It merely shows that* overall*, white men make more money than white women, non- white men, and non-white women. Specific jobs are not addressed. Do you understand that in order for evidence to support a claim it must have at least some passing relevance to it? Strike that. Cleary you don’t.
I have worked on construction sites and can assure you that, in my experience, any entry level carpenter is paid the same as any other, and that advancement is based upon how well you do the job. Construction sites are true racial melting pots, and good workers are hard to find. The best carpenters are the best paid carpenters, regardless of race.
I am beginning to agree with menhendo that this is an exercise in futility. Wal-Mart is sued for profiling, and that proves that that they have different pay scales for whites and non-whites. Are you paying attention at* all* to what you are doing here?
(Bolding mine)
As I have suggested to you before, the world is a bit more complex than you seem to understand. You will find many false roads if you insist on going down the path of ‘many people told me, I processed it, and therefore it is true.’ What you are experiencing is revelation, not reason. It as a particularly poor way to discover things about the natural world.
So let me get this straight. People in this thread are actually disputing that biological aspects of a person such as height, build, hair color, eye color, skin color and scent are genetic traits?
Thanks davenportavenger it’s great to be called a racist for pointing out simple biological facts.
Erek
that would be the big scary boogeyman racist, not the casual every day racist.
No, but what makes a ‘race’ is a concept that is a human creation. Skin color and a few other traits seperate races, rather than any of the other traits.
You mentioned pheromones. Show me something that says humans, first of all, HAVE pheromones and second makes different races excrete different pheromones.
perhaps you have misunderstood me ** DP** , I am saying you are rasict, by your own definition - there is NO wiggle room, and the people you accuse of racism, are again by the definition you cite NOT racist.
I am going to make a assumption here, a very big one, but one I think very well might apply. If you and a ‘person of white privlege’ apply for a job and you don’t get it you automatically assume racism.
Originally posted by Davenportavenger:
So then you agree that there is nothing to feel guilty about.