[sub]pssst…chula, it’s called “diffusing an akward situation”[/sub] 
Some of us don’t date 'cause we can’t handle the pressure of being the one that has to make the first move.
Awkward situation?? I thought that was going well! No wonder you people are having problems hooking up!
This is more like creating an akward situation instead of diffusing…
“Defusing”, even, as in rendering a bomb harmless.
Btw, pedantry like this might be why I had so many problems hooking up :rolleyes: @ self.
I was thinking about one of these moments the other day.
I was working with a cute girl called Kate at the cafe and I invited her out to drinks after work. This was nothing really unusual. Our cafe was a pretty homey community, and staff often hung out with each other after hours. We’ve always teased and flirted on-shift, but it was just that: teasing and flirting. Anyhow, for some reason we stop off at her flat and I drop off some bags I had on me. I didn’t see it to be a necessary stop but, hey, it’s right around the corner from the bar. She also mentions something about her roommates being gone for the weekend. I say something stupid and obvious like, Oh, it’s always nice to have the place to yourself for a bit.
We go to the bar, have several drinks, and then she smiles, turns to me and says: “You know, alcohol makes me really horny.” I agree and just shrug if off as a slightly tipsy comment.
I go back to her place, pick up my stuff and walk home.
And the walk home it hits me…"Wait a sec… did she just? did I just? … How the fuck did I get those signals crossed!!! D’OH!!! :smack: "
Unfortunately, I never got another opprotunity like that. She soon found a boyfriend and married him a couple years later. Oh well.
Rashak, that is a very good question, but one I don’t really feel prepared to answer. But here’s my crack at it.
First, libido is subjective. What’s normal for me might not be for the next girl. I might think that once a week is hot and heavy and you may want it three times a day. Your last girlfriend was up for it once a day. In that case, I would feel that my sex drive is perfectly fine, and that you are an animal, whereas you might think I’m frigid and sexually repressed. I know I don’t think about having sex as much as they say guys do. I recognize that number (once every six minutes?) is an average, so I don’t believe that most guys think about sex as much as that.
And you are right, (warning, generalization ahead) women usually need to feel close to their partner to enjoy sex freely. It’s hard to relax with someone you don’t’ know well, no matter what you are doing together, even if it’s, say, mowing the lawn. Relaxed, comfortable woman = orgasmic woman. Uptight woman = faking it.
A key factor (and one I don’t think men completely understand) is the body dysmorphia most of us suffer from. It’s hard to be sexy if you are worried about how your butt looks (and we do worry).
Let me give you a sample of an average woman’s interior dialogue on a date:
The scene: you and your date are sitting in his apartmemnt after a nice evening out. He’s kissing your neck and all you are thinking is, “He took his hand off my boobs. Does he think they are too small? Too droopy? Oh, not like that, it makes my belly look flabby. All those sit-ups, and no abs in sight. Oh, don’t put your hand there; you’ll feel the cellulite on my thighs. Is he going down? Damn, he’s going down. Did I shave thoroughly enough? Oh, God, does it smell? Oh, forget it. I’m getting dressed and going home to sublimate with a pint of Ben & Jerry’s ™. At least they won’t judge me for being a fat pig.” And the guy is clueless. He probably thinks he did something wrong. And all his assurances that she is sexy won’t help.
So, no, I don’t think that women as a whole are less horny. And I do think that we are getting better about being comfortable with, and expressive of our sexuality. It helps to read threads like dantheman’s recent one about how much he enjoys cunnilingus. Heck, just getting a little older helps.
But remember, however far society has come, in terms of supporting women’s sexuality, there is still a double standard. It’s loosened a little, so just having sex doesn’t condemn you socially, but there is a fine line. Overstep that, i.e., be seen as a woman who has ‘too much’ sex, or too many partners, and you will still be socially stigmatized.
Jesus Christ you women are NUTS!
If I worried about every little thing that much I’d be twice as crazy as I am now.
Maybe this explains (partly) why men have no clue as to how to deal with women, it seems based on what Wintermute says that women are in a constant state of anxiety.
Is it any wonder men have a hard time picking up on the obvious signals? It’s hard to pick up the “I like you” radio waves because they are drowned out from the neurotic static.
You gals need therapy
::hops off soap box::
I was hoping the women’s neurotic inner thoughts of “Sex and the City” were very overdone… but seems its not.
I understand women need to feel comfortable with a guy before being able to enjoy sex more. (Sometimes I suppose they feel horny without the “comfort” level.) What scares me is feeling that even when they have been with the same guy a long time and should be enjoying sex more than ever… there is still that little bug… that little holding back. Examples:
Whenever I am away travelling for more than a week 2 of my ex-girlfriends once remarked how they missed me and wanted to masturbate but didnt…
I often act out some of my fantasies and the girls enjoy it too… but when I say they can do their fantasies it rarely ever happens. Not because they dont have them I suppose… but a bit of embarresment.
Mind you that I usually have steady relations of 3 to 4 years.... long enough to feel comfortable. Even then I feel a bit of holding back when there shouldnt be any. Talking with friends of both sexes I again have the impression that women hold back. Even when they are wild... they could be wilder.
Also what most women dont seem to notice... is that once a man is in a relationship... he WILL NOT notice small changes to her body. If she gains a pound or three... a little more celulitis or her breasts sag a bit... he won't notice or mind if he does. Quality Sex is what makes men happy in bed. Quality sex means women must be satisfied or very happy about it too. Men might be selfish in one night stands... but not usually with steady girlfriends. If women paid more attention to the sex part and less to the body parts... only very vain men care if a woman looks perfect.I was asked out by girls sometimes. I was totally embarrassed but went. I’d make my best effort to be a perfect gentleman: extremely considerate, scrupulously reserved. Thinking back, I might have made the ladies cry.
All of you guys have nothing on me.
Go ahead, kick it.
My summary of this thread, after reading Wintermute’s last post.
Many men (including myself) are somewhat clueless when it comes to flirting. It doesn’t help that flirting to one person is normal behavior to another, but we still miss some pretty obvious cues.
Women, on the other hand, need to learn to enjoy themselves more and stop over-analyzing things. If he’s kissing your neck, girls, he’s probably enjoying himself. If he’s kissing lower, he is most assuredly enjoying himself. Assuming Wintermute’s post is accurate about what women are thinking, you’re definitely misreading the signals that guys are sending.
Just posting to let you guys know that not all women share that Sex in the City-style neurosis.
If I’m out on a date with someone I’m attracted to, and I’ve grown comfortable enough with them to let them kiss my neck, and they start actually kissing my neck, my brain turns into mush. I’m not thinking much of anything at that point. I can’t imagine wondering if my thighs are too big while I’m being kissed. There’s no way in Hell that the thought of breaking off a passionate make-out session to go home alone to a pint of Godiva would ever even cross my mind.
And I’ve asked guys out–sometimes with good results, and sometimes with pretty miserable final outcomes. But, hey–ya win some, ya lose some. That’s just the way it is.
But, then again, I’m lousy at flirting. I do okay at making conversation, I think, but I’m not good at giving come-on signals.
Rashak, I’m not sure what you are looking for. I don’t know your girlfriends, and I don’t know what you feel you are missing in your relationships, so I’m not sure what to tell you here. If you’ve been with a girl for a couple years, that’s probably as “wild” as she’s ever going to get. If she’s still not wild enough for you, I don’t know what to tell you.
For me, I will say that, if I were horny, and you weren’t around, I, personally, would masturbate without a second thought. Would I tell you I had? Probably not. Would I let you watch, if you were home? No. I don’t take it up the a** and I probably won’t let you come in my mouth. (I will, however, let you tie me up. So there are compensations. ;)) Life isn’t like the movies. Everyone has different boundaries and comfort levels.
hehe… well my GFs did all the things you said you would and wouldnt do. Except masturbate.
Its not what I am missing actually which is the “topic” its the fact that I feel/think/imagine the girlfriends could loosen up a bit more, not feel bound (in the metaphysical sense) and feel free to do what she wants and to ask for things. I already feel pretty free in bed… and I want my bedmate to do so also.
Maybe they werent holding back a bit… and its only my impression too…
This is actually what I was talking about when I said men don’t get the self-esteem thing. You must understand that many of us have been told from birth, that, because we are women, we are second best. Not good enough. Flawed.
Not to sound snarky, but have you picked up a magazine or turned on a TV lately? I’m not blaming the media solely or entirely, but it’s awfully had to feel ok about yourself when everything around you is telling you that you’re not.
(But there’s good news! If you buy this product, it will solve all your problems. What? Still not perfect? That wasn’t the right product for you; you have sensitive skin. Try this. No, still not good enough. You’re not working hard enough. How you got a man is beyond me; you’ll never be able to keep him with thighs like those. Lose more weight. Be a shark in the boardroom and a porn star in the bedroom, but don’t forget to bake from scratch 32 cupcakes for your kid’s birthday, each one frosted and individualized according to the allergy du jour. You used a mix?! Now be prepared to pay for years of therapy for your poor, abused child…etc., etc., ad nauseum)
Women are bombarded by these kind of messages constantly. Some of it is overt, and some isn’t, but it’s there, if you look for it. Watch the TV ads aimed at women, particularly during the daytime. I mean, men don’t worry about being “fresh”, or if the floor is clean enough to eat off of. Notice the covers of the magazines by the checkout stand at the grocery store.
This is not helped by the fact that we all know guys who will f*** with anything in a skirt. The fact he seems to be enjoying himself doesn’t really mean anything. If you sleep with him, you know he’ll get off, but will you? And, far more importantly, will he call you when he says he will? Because that’s a better measure of how much he likes you than if he’ll sleep with you.
On preview, let me add that I think Scribble is probably about the average. If I have to put my clothes back on to leave, I’m probably not going anywhere. At least until afterward.
I mean, someone’s getting laid, if all the babies around are a clue. 
Well, now you’re changing the issue, Wintermute… before it was what is the guy thinking, now it’s what messages you get from the media and whether or not he’s going to call youin the morning. Frankly, I think the latter two are more valid than the first one. You know what the guy is thinking, but you’re not able to let go enough to enjoy it. I can understand that.
And if you really think men “don’t get the whole self-esteem thing,” then you haven’t been reading this thread very carefully. It’s full of men who seem to fully get the self-esteem thing.
Problem is that if you compliment her she will think your just wanting to make her feel better… and if you dont compliment her then something is wrong with her ? (Is that how it goes wintermute ?)
I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to imply that at all. This isn’t “My self-esteem is lower than your self-esteem.” I was simply trying to illustrate what it’s like inside a girl’s head. I will admit, it’s my head, more or less, so it’s a little biased. However, I know/have known lots of girls. I maintain that it’s not an unusual line of thought. All right, most girls don’t leave, but I know I’ve been in more than one situation where I thought about it.
Not at all. Let’s go back to that couple on the couch. We now have some idea of what she’s thinking about, but what’s running through his mind? Is he worried about those love handles? Does his thinning hair line even cross his mind? How about that unibrow, now that she’s up close?
Say you, Avalonian are (to use an analogy I’ve always hated) at second base and are heading to third, do you worry about the hair on your back (presuming you have hair on your back)?
No? Why not?
How can you let go and enjoy? If you sleep with him, he knows you like him, but you still don’t know how he feels about you unless he calls you back. But why would he? You have so much wrong with you. First, you’re a slut for sleeping with him at all. And now that you have, you can’t call him, but you can’t wait for the phone. You eat way too much, you had three whole lettuce leaves and a diet cola, you wear last season and your purse is a knock-off. Your pores are too big, your hair is a mess, you hang out with the wrong people and go to the wrong clubs. You don’t read the right books, you don’t see the right movies, and you are stupid.
Oh, and you probably f**ked him wrong. You didn’t swallow, you didn’t make enough noise. Or maybe you made too much, maybe that’s why he hasn’t called you. Oh, my God, that’s it; you yelled too much and he knew you were faking. Or maybe you didn’t move enough. Did you smell bad? You douched before you left your house, but maybe that wasn’t enough. Maybe you should have gone to the bathroom at the restaurant and washed up again.
I’m not making this shit up. My point is, where does it come from? And, yes, I am pointing to the media, here. I doubt, somehow, that bushwomen worry about their smells, or the size of their pores.
Do you see what I mean, now? Does that clarify my point for you?
Wintermute, my love, get some therapy.
I mean, sure, I’m a girl, and I have had all of the above thoughts go through my head. But they sure don’t pass by very often and they sure don’t stay very long. At some point, you have to recognize that your insecurity is your own.
I’m not trying to criticize you for having hang-ups. We all do. But this thread is starting to read like you’re trying to make men feel guilty about your personal issues. You feel like a slut if you ask someone out - so men shouldn’t expect normal assertion in women. You feel unbeautiful in intimate situations - so men should… what exactly? Compliment you? - probably not perceived as genuine. Call you back? - yeah, but should’ve already. No one, male or female, can mind read all of your particular hang-ups. It seems like you just want them to feel bad about you feeling bad.
This thread started out as a request that females communicate more clearly (to interpret slightly). What you’re trying to tell us all is that females don’t, won’t, can’t… and don’t want to learn. That’s a gross overgeneralization that doesn’t apply to many of us. And it’s an undesirable state, which I would suggest you try and change rather than making more excuses about why you pesonally have trouble asking for what you want.
Clear communication is a form of fighting ignorance. And asking for what you want is just common sense.
mischievous