Well okay then, we’ve been talking past each other because by “terrible candidate” I mean something like what @kaylasdad99 means.
Yeah, I wasn’t talking about people not voting for her, but calling her a “terrible candidate”, which to me is addressing her qualifications and not her campaigning ability.
Michael Dukakis and John Kerry were terrible candidates. I think both were worse than HRC, but I don’t Mondale was worse, but just my opinion.
Hey, I totally appreciate you liked my inconvenient haiku.
I’m a poet and didn’t know it.
About the other part of your post, I couldn’t say.
But when people say candidate, especially on the SDMB, they are talking about her campaigning ability.
So, we didn’t give you Bernie and therefore you gave us [the America-hating fuckstick]?
Thanks, I guess.
I’m a people, and I use the hiring manager meaning.
I’ll note that people on the SDMB also say “free reign” and “tow the line” and “shoe-in.”
Cite?
But seriously we’re talking politics, not HR.
If only Bernie had the guts to run as an independent, instead of riding the coat tails of a party he refuses to identify with.
That’s an interesting question, because there’s at least two of us who don’t. It’s quite possible many of us have been miscommunicating for years.
Benghazi is Arabic for Vince Foster.
Hillary might be a nice person ( never met her ). I know that 8-9 years ago I thought that she had some flaws, but that’s so long ago I can’t even remember what they were.
I voted for her. I know that I held the unpopular opinion that she’d been in the political news cycle too long and that the opposition had years to seed hatred of her through lies and innuendo making her candidacy ‘a ship that was already listing’. This is a shame because I know she would have been better than Rump.
I’m a little sad that people are fighting about this now. She suffers from the same problem that many of us do as well as both current candidates: age. There’s nothing wrong with that; it comes for us all. ( Even John Cusack, a person some other poster once teased me about as posting/lurking here, isn’t 30 years old anymore. But we love him anyway. )
Anyway, Hillary is Retired. She is living her best life with her family and grandkids. She might even trot out a bottle of ‘Clinton’ white wine for a laugh on special holidays.
I think that she has earned both her privacy and her retirement.
I wouldn’t want to ruin that for her for anything.
I gotta start waiting until I don’t have any potential edits to add before I hit “reply”…
You respond too fast.
That’s okay, I voted for Kerry, too. The Democrats often nominate lousy campaigners (I’ll use that term in deference to @kaylasdad99).
The point I was trying to make is that when your candidate doesn’t make it out of the primaries, it doesn’t mean you walk away from the process. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and swallow the bitter pill.
Remember, Donald Trump got MORE popular votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
I’ve started a poll:
I would never “stay home”. Voting is important.
And I never voted for trump ( lower case).
Blackmail of whom? 14 Million Republican primary voters?
While its possible/likely that Russian Trolls promoted the Trump candidacy on social media, there was no back room shady deal that handed Trump the candidacy. There is no way to cheat your way into being the head of a personality cult. Trump won because the other candidates under estimated the extent to which a decades of Right wing media drivel had turned the minds of GOP primary voters to mush. They were still under the misapprehension that if you came out as a racist and spouted easily debunked lies you would suffer for it. Trump who had political savy, filters or shame went out and spewed what ever nonsense found its way into his head, but it was nonsense that the GOP voters wanted to believe so he was the one guy who actually “got it right” as far as they were concerned, and jumped on the giant band wagon to hell. After the cat was out of the bag lots of others followed his example, but he was the first. Basically the political equivalent of the Fosbury Flop.
Oh sure, the 2016 campaign was largely a debate about email server management. I will concede that Hillary lost that particular debate, with an able assist by Comey and the New York Times which, " dedicated 100 percent of its above-the-fold space to coverage of Comey’s letter to Congress, as well as the general media that dedicated more time to Clinton’s email server stories than to stories about all policy issues combined."
What do the numbers say though? The numbers say that after controlling for incumbency and the state of the economy that Trump underperformed by 5.4 percentage points. Or, alternatively, Hillary outperformed by 5.4 percentage points, which is mathematically equivalent. An epic performance: congrats. Sure, Hillary was terrible at oratory (but often forgotten solid during the televised debates). But at the end of the day she wasn’t a terrible candidate mathematically speaking.
What about 2020? Trump underperformed by a still sizable 3.4 points. Call it Biden’s weakness, Hillary’s greatness, or (my choice) reversion to the mean as abnormality was normalized. Either way while fingers can be pointed in many directions, Hillary didn’t do badly historically speaking.
The urgency was lacking because many of us (including me) thought Trump had zero chance. As a result, Clinton lost a lot of votes because it was easy to hold back your vote for a less than perfect candidate if you didn’t fear the evil on winning. Compacity by the voters (with the media helping), not the campaign, is what screwed us.
I thought this was debunked. She did, in fact, campaign in the Midwest (and who votes for a POTUS based on how many times they visit your state?) But, she also thought (as did most people) she had a blue wall protecting her. Her campaign was wrong about that, but it was conventional wisdom at the time. Like this year, do you really think Biden needs to spend more time in NY? He’ll certainly have egg on his face if he loses New York, but no one thinks that’s a possibility.
Not the voters. The republicans who lost their spines and enable trump. The ones that don’t speak out,
Good grief. This thread has gone off the rails.