if i am a girl, is it ok for me to be a misogynist?

Great Debates
1

Today I was thinking about how I am a fairly misogynistic person, and how I am also a girl. Because I am a girl, I “get away with” misogynistic stuff a lot more than a guy could get away with it.

And it seems that a black person can get away with calling another black person a bad name, while if a white person were to use that word, it would be bad news.

So putting these two thoughts together, I am wondering: if I say I hate a certain group of people, if I belong to that group, is it less bad than if I was an outsider saying I hated that group? In my example, if I am a woman, and I say I hate women, I dont think people would jump down my throat as fast as they would if a guy said that. And why is that?

What is the deal with the whole “insider” business, as it were?

I dont think I have expressed what I am talking about very clearly here, so if anyone needs me to try and clarify just ask, but as it is I cant see how to ask it any better.
Also before anyone decides to jump down my throat anyway, I dont really hate all women, I have definite misogynistic issues but that is besides the point for this thread.

2

How do you deal with not hating yourself then? Or is it just that you hate characteristics associated with women?

I don’t know, it just sounds as thought it might be hard to be content, or live with yourself, in this manner. Personally, I don’t see any real difference. I don’t think it’s “ok” to be prejudiced against a group of people, even if you yourself belong to that group. Narrow mindedness is narrow mindedness, right?

3

Question-
Are you wanting to get over it, or just see what people think about it?
I don’t know what to say until I know more…
jsut curious.

oh, yeah, and what is it you hate about women? That might influence answers too…

As to the why is it worse when you’re outside a group to ahte members of that group, I think it’s kind of an issue of familiarity and understanding.

If I hate a member of my family, well, I don’t know, they ‘know’ me, and are probably familiar with my reasoning, and what I may or may not do, and that I probably won’t hurt them, really, and the whole thing is less threatening.
On the other hand, someone from outside the family hates someone in my family- well, that’s a lot of unknowns- scary.

4

Sneeze

(inor, check before you post, repeat…)

:wink:

5

Whenever someone (falsely) accuses me of being a misogynist, I gently point out that I’m a misanthrope.

It never helps, but makes me feel better.

Why get into these petty bigotries - racism, sexism, ageism, etc. - when there’s enough earned distain to go around for everyone?

That’s my philosophical stance. In actual practice I’m a philanthrope, so they balance each other out.

6

I’ll hazard the opinion that all forms of group hatred represent an error in logic and poor analytical thinking to begin with. Self-hatred is just a sadder step.

7

There is one theory of discrimination that says those without “power” are unable to be racist, sexist, etc. According to this theory, in avery discriminatory situation there are two “groups.” Those with the power to oppress, and those being oppressed. Anyone who doesn’t have the power to oppress is unable to be discriminatory. Therefore, a woman who hates men is not “sexist” by this definition, since she has no power to oppress the opposite sex.

A woman who stereotypes and otherwise pigeonholes other women is similarly not sexist. She’s just an idiot.

Is it “less bad”? Of course not. Stupidity is stupidity no matter where it originates. I actually think it’s WORSE since you’re on the INSIDE and unable to open your eyes to myths about gender differences and stereotyping. And since people like you serve to make change intrinsically more difficult.

-L

8

I’m a guy and I sometimes slag off men ‘getting drunk, in fights, watching football all the time blah blah’.

But then I realised its not ALL men just as I am sure you don’t really hate ALL women.

Its easy to group people saying women or blacks or jews etc. what really mean is a certain set of attitudes or characteristics etc.

What exactly is it you hate ?

9

I think you could easily be a member of a group and ‘hate’ assorted things about it.

I’m a white male and I hate acts of racism plus I intensely dislike the acts of a lot of men, especially those attempting to live up to the stereotypical manly man image. This does not mean I like every black I meet nor dislike every guy I know.

I have noticed in general that no matter what sex you are, lately there are various reports floating around to let you know how inferior or flawed you might be.

10

Like I said right at the bottom of the OP “I dont really hate all women.”

It’s not so much that I hate women, I think, but like Zoggie said, I hate some characteristics associated with women, and I think of these characteristics when dealing with certain groups of women.

Like, after encountering a set of people/women who have these characteristics, I have to roll my eyes and sigh “Good lord I hate women.” Like after being sideswiped by a group of incredibly ill-trained kids I roll my eyes and sigh “Good lord I hate kids…”

I cant think of a single individual woman (or kid or anyone) that I actually hate, and whenever I happen to meet a woman who I previously grouped in with “women,” it turns out I like her just fine.

I like myself fine, for everyone who said that it must be self-hatred to hate a group you are a part of. I really dont have much in common with the women who exhibit qualities I hate, and I think that is really what bothers me - the qualities.

Anyway, I’m not really too concerned about me on this one - I dont hate all women, but some groups of women do annoy me intensly. Since women annoy me more than men, I call myself a misogynist.

I think what I was really trying to ask was, why exactly is it ok for people in a group to call eachother names that, if they were called that by someone outside of the group, it would be labeled racist or sexist or something. I realize that that was really not worded well in the OP - at the time I think I was asking something different, but now I realize that wasnt really what I wanted to know, if that makes sense. The “insider thing,” as it were, which is what I was talking about how if a women said “all girls are idiots,” people wouldnt castrate her like they would a guy (which I was wrong about, apparently).

But anyway…

11

I know what you mean.

I’ve been around groups of black people arguing and calling each other nigger without getting all enraged over it, but I’ve also seen a white or Asian call a few blacks nigger and they just explode over the insult. One black guy explained to me once that blacks calling each other nigger was OK, but it was not OK for any other race to call them that.

I guess it’s like whites calling each other crackers in that no one cares but a black calling a white a cracker means it as a bad insult, so it’s worse. Even this gets a bit confusing because cracker or kracker according to blacks is the name for a white whip wielding slave master. According to whites, a cracker or kracker is the name for a whip wielding mule team driver, which infers backwoods ignorance.

I guess you can take your pick.

12

The short answer is that it’s not okay for a member of a particular group to express hatred for that group. The more complicated answer is that it may be more acceptable for a member of a particular group to say that she or he hates that group, because people won’t think that she or he really means it. That is, you may say you hate women, but since you are a woman most people would assume that you don’t literally mean it and will not treat it seriously.

13

Its probably more acceptable to slag off your own group as you can’t be accused of having the bias of the other group.

14

I’m a member of a group that is often disparaged: the psychiatrically diagnosed, i.e., the allegedly “mentally ill”.

If I make a disparaging remark about loonies, there is a certain expectation that I will take some responsibility for improving the group overall. Thoughtful self-criticism (or even wry self-witticism) is often part of courageous self-assessment. If I’m not a member of the group, I’m not in much position to improve it by adding to the disparagement. If I’m a member of the group most responsible for our miseries in an oppressive power struggle (e.g., psychiatrists who practice forced treatment) and I make derisive remarks about psychos, they are likely to resent the hell out of it.

I may nevertheless be running down psychiatric inmates with no sense of responsibility for improving us as a group. This could imply that I’m not serious about applying the disparagement to ALL nut cases (implying that I’m not truly prejudiced against the group; I recognize the ones amongst us who aren’t like that, such as, presumably, myself), or it could imply that I don’t identify with crazies, hate being associated with them, and think myself above anyone who has received a psychiatric diagnosis. The other insane asylum refugees may be tolerant of some of that, but beyond a certain point it is clearly just as ugly as outsiders hating us and being prejudiced against us, and considerably more pathetic.

I may not be serious at all. It can be a “dark humor” in-joke in which I am actually mocking those who disparage us by expressing the opinions they express in the terms they express them without believing a word of it. Thus, when someone gets really riled in a discussion at a meeting, I remark “Affective dissonance and displays of inappropriate behavior prevalent among lunatics explains why they are unable to organize politically.” I may get a jacket thrown in my face, but they know I am not serious.

15

Anybody who claims they don’t have prejudices is lying or hasn’t examined themselves closely enough. It’s what a person does with those prejudices that matters. A person might really hate certain characteristics that are common in a certain group of people, i.e, women, blacks, Republicans, NASCAR fans, but as long as you recognize that you have those prejudgments (prejudices) and don’t allow them to influence your real judgment about a particular member of that group or even the gorup itself, then there’s no problem; you’re still a good person.

16

A recent comment in Great debates expressing joy for Reagan’s Alzheimers disease and hope for Nancy Reagan’s suffering when changing his diaper only drew one negative comment. Yes, name calling and hatred for individuals and certain groups isquite acceptable. I list politicians,adherents of religion, obese people, short people, people with short penes,people with IQ’s below average and people of opposing political views to start off the list. As far as within the group,it seems to me every group requires it’s “Omega”. Here,in this highly altruistic community, it is trolls,hydras, and pod people. Banning convicted members of this subgroup always seems to be met with celebration. So much for “all you need is love”.

17

They Call Me Sneeze:

You might be interested in this link: http://bitch.shutdown.com/

18

I was thinking of posting the same link, Utopia :slight_smile:

19

As a whole, I don’t like females. Not to hang out with or do anything non sexual with. However, I am bisexual, so I appreciate women to an extent straight women will never know. That really hot 19 year-old? If I think she looks good, I’ll tell her to blow off the cute fleshy woman who bears her a grudge because the fleshy woman thinks she USED to look that good if not better. I KNOW females can and most often ARE evil…why we spread it to one another is beyond me. The cute 19 YO needs advice, not catty remarks. At 19, I was shit-hot too, but at 33, I am very happy being “earthy”> the pervert 49 year old guys like my old boss who don’t get that deserve the mind fuck that only a naive but hot young girl can give. (Hi Gary, you disgusting pig…oops…maybe I need to start a pit thread…)
Back on track of the OP…women are catty and evil. However, they also smell nice and taste better. The few female friends you encouter who at least share your view of “women are evil” will be among the best you’ve ever known. Or at least you won’t have to play witless games with them, YMMV :slight_smile:

Oh, by the way…once you reach the age, a rousing game of "My pregnancy/labor " can be as riveting as fishing/hunting/growing-up stories for men. I heartily agree with taking part in those even if you NEVER plan on having children. It’s a fun free for all/top THIS kind of affair!

20

I can see how you feel They Call Me Sneeze. People seem to be confused that since you are a misogynist & a woman that therefore you must also dislike yourself. However, as you know, this is not the case.

‘miso’ comes from the Greek ‘misein’ which means ‘to hate’.
However, the word, ‘hate’ means ‘an intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury’. In other words, you may have had rather fearful experiences with women before, causing you to be cautious of them, not yourself today. Which is course makes perfect sense to me.