I’ll predict Mike Pence does show up January 6, but does not attend the inauguration on January 20.
I read somewhere that Pence is splitting DC for the Middle East as soon as all the electors have been counted.
Sure. By the insane logic put forth here, when Biden presided over the Senate in January 2017, he could have simply proclaimed that he was the winner by 538 electoral votes to zero.
He could have made Hillary president, by the logic. But he couldn’t have made himself president.
I’d have settled for that. I’m sure a lot of participants here at SDMB would have.
By the “logic” presented in your “cite”, he could have made my dog president.
(And she’d do a damn good job.)
I don’t actually think @Velocity is presenting that article as a cite for their own views - they seem critical of it.
But, by the “logic” of that cite, no, Biden couldn’t have declared himself or your dog President. The logic of the cited dumbpiece is that the VP can just choose not count electoral votes if he doesn’t think the electors who cast them were properly chosen, not that he can just make up electoral votes. The article isn’t arguing that Pence should just declare Trump the winner. It’s arguing that Pence shouldn’t count the electoral votes from “controversial” states (which are conveniently all states Biden won), which de facto means Trump won.
Let me be clear. It’s a dumb, poorly reasoned article. But not quite the way some people in this thread seem to think it is.
It’s my understanding that the Vice President opens the envelope and presents the electoral votes. He has no power to decide whether or not to accept the votes.
He’s like Vanna White; He just turns the letters and has no say over how the game is played.
Very clearly said. Thank you!
There’s a full-sized billboard on the freeway near here advertising some conspiracy theory website. It shows a map of the US with the states colored red or blue based on the vote and any “controversial” state colored yellow. I haven’t looked at it carefully enough to validate that they didn’t lie about how they colored each state. But it looks about right.
Unsurprisingly, the red + yellow states are gigantic in area compared to a small blue bubble in the northeast plus CA, plus c couple outliers elsewhere. “Clearly” proving Biden winning was totally a steal.
The lie of course is a) claiming there are actually disputed states, not “disputed” states; and b) using geographical area as a visual proxy for number of EC votes.
You are exactly right – under the statute, the VP is required to open all certificates of electors as well as “documents purporting to be certificates of electors.” He doesn’t even read them – he passes the documents on to clerks who read their contents to the session. He has NO leeway to decide not to open or not to present any certificate of electors. And he has NO role in deciding which certificates of electors are valid. The statute is very detailed in which certificates are to be counted and how objections are to be resolved.
What happens if he refuses to open the certificates of electors from Biden states? It’s uncharted waters. Congress could overrule him or declare the chair vacant (with the President pro tempore then filling in for the VP), but if it’s come to this I assume Pence is not recognizing that they have any authority over him. So it’s whoever the guys in the tanks side with.
The whole point of an article like that is to reinforce in the audience the belief that any result that is not the reelection of Trump was an act of betrayal by someone whose duty it was to make it happen. It was others that failed him and failed us.
Of course the author is too much of a wuss to directly present it as a personal betrayal of the Glorious Leader so, much in the same way as Sovereign Citizen Litigators do, he’s slinging around bullshit jurisbabble to claim any result other than the one they want is a failure to obey what the Constitution and Rule of Law “really mean”, driving home and keeping in the minds of the believers that particular article of faith.
And I think that the military leadership has made that abundantly clear.
As I said earlier; Pence is a coward. And when push comes to shove, he will either do his job of passing the documents to the clerks, or he will turtle and run away from the whole thing.
It’s like the certification of the election in Michigan. They had four certifiers, two republicans and two democrats. They were not legally allowed to vote “no” on certification unless there was a real indication of fraud. It was literally felony to do so. They exist only to rubber-stamp the election as valid. One(Republican) abstained instead of voting to certify. The other Republican and both Democrats certified.
Pence could skip it to abstain, but he can’t do anything about the election.
I think he’ll show up, but I will not be shocked if he skips out. I don’t see him attending the inauguration, though.
Agreed, I don’t think it is likely. And he will probably give a coward’s excuse. (spend time with family, feeling unwell)
Trump will not attend, but he will give an unhinged lunatic excuse. (Shape-shifting space aliens are all against him now! He must guard the strawberries in the wardroom icebox. THERE IS A DUPLICATE KEY!)
He’ll probably be doing a 2024 reelection rally, or even some sort of faux swearing in ceremony.
What if президент Trump orders construction of an inauguration platform on the White House lawn?
I believe he is planning to hold a rally in a hangar of sorts. After Air Force One drops him off. I heard that at one point, anyway.
I don’t think he’ll get fake-sworn in.
Part of “Pence is being a coward” is “Pence has a job to do and rules to follow, so he’ll do what he’s supposed to.”
Yeah, just wanted to come to the defense of my fellow cowards no matter where they are…
Hear me, my loyal milquetoasts! Rise up (but follow the rules)! Signal before lane changes, wear your mask, and inaugurate the next President!
There may already have been awkward communications with one or more SCOTUS Justices. Will you fly to Florida for a January 20 ceremony? No, I won’t available…have to wash my hair… (I wouldn’t bet against it.)
Settling for a Florida Supreme Court justice, or even for Judge Judy, wouldn’t fit Trump’s sense of self-importance.
I guess he could swear himself in. Come to think of it, that might be likely. He’d enjoy the implication that there simply IS no higher authority than his own precious self.
ETA: more on-topic: I’d predict Pence will NOT show for the Inauguration (Biden’s of course). I’m 50-50 on his showing up to do his duty on January 6. If he does show I wouldn’t expect shenanigans–he’d do the hand-off without drama (I’d bet).
If Pence actually DOES HIS JOB on January 6, and the process proceeds as it should:
AND
If Pence actually attends the inauguration on Jan 20 and behaves like a departing VP is supposed to;
Then I will rescind my description of him as a coward.