For those who believe that it is correct to love (or at least attempt to love) our enemies, should we love Satan?
Does love our enemies only apply to those enemies that we might consider to be redeemable? Is it wrong to not love those we consider completely sinful? Should all of us who subscribe to the doctrine of “love your enemy” love Fred Phelps and Hitler?
If we should, what form should such a love take, for if it is just pitty for the sick is that truly love at all?
Luke 6: 27-36 seems to suggest so. I was always taught to love the sinner, hate the sin (nowadays, I’m abit less forgiving).
Funny: no one suggest how I was to love the sinner. I guess pity.
God hung out with Satan in the Book of Job and Jesus hung out with him in the desert.
[sup]Even if you don’t buy that, the answer is yes.[/sup]
PS When I first scanned the ID I thought it was JustAnotherGreek. :o
I think that it wouldn’t matter. Satan has either been forced or otherwise lost the ability to experience God (love.) Which would be true of anyone in hell, really.
Sinners though, gotta love 'em!
Who says you should love Hitler or Satan?
oh, the Bible? Well, that just shows how screwed up you can get taking the Bible literally.
Do what YOU think is best. If you feel your religion requires you to have deep love in your heart for Klaus Barbie, Charlie Manson, and Pol Pot, go for it!
My take: yes. In fact, love is a veritable Satanicide.
heh. I’d’ve called myself GreekGeek if I were!
Incidentally, Bippy, I’d like to specify exactly what I mean by “love” when I say that love is a Satanicide. I don’t mean an emotion. I don’t mean an attraction. I mean the facilitation of goodness. That is my understanding of what Jesus means by “love” (or “charity”, to use the old word). In the same way that darkness is extinguished when light is introduced, so is Satan extinguished when goodness is introduced. Love is how goodness is shown.
Without Evil, Good is meaningless. So Satan is an integral part of God’s Plan. Thus, Satan is ultimately good.
You may read that with or without your tongue in your cheek.
I’ve always thought of it as showing love in the sense you retain hope for redemption for a person. In the strictest sense of the word hate (though I use it for various things) is for something constant. For instance, I hate pedophelia, in that it will always be evil. And it’s a concept or behavior. The person committing it, is committing an evil act. The person themself, in Christianity at least, always has hope for redemption. Even after death. (Purgatory)
Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Bush (Had to give you lefties a smile there)
They all have a chance of ultimate redemption. Hell, Satan was an angel at one point, so there’s always the chance he and God could kiss and make up. There was good in Satan at some point, so technically he isn’t really inherently evil. He just fell from grace.
Yeah, yeah, I know it’s sappy and hippy-think. But keep in mind the Bible’s authors were all long haired toga-wearing sandal-clod naturalists.
There are different aspects to “love”- from “emotional affection” to “giving opportunity for redemption/decency” to “doing the right thing by someone”.
I think Jesus is telling us the latter two- to give our personal enemies opportunity to change by behaving decently towards them, and then, if they remain hostile, to leave them alone; and if they pursue us, to “do the right thing by them” using the proper legal channels & if they fail, by appealing to God for vindication.
RE societal enemies- criminals- the lex talionis is the right thing to do; require financial restitution for damages done; opportunities for rehabilitation if the person seems open; but permanent removal from society for murderers & other predators (execution, if guilt is certain- send them to God to give Him the decision for or against rehab).
Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies- in Revelation 6, the martyrs in Heaven are shown praying for their enemies- for God to pour vengeance upon them.
Amen.
Depends on what you’re after.
Hell for the company, Heaven for the climate, and all that.
duffer probably already said what I’m going to say but this is what my mother told me as a child.
“love they neighbor” doesn’t mean that you have to like them as much as it means you have to respect them and treat them as you would wish to be treated. It does not mean unconditional acceptance of the acts committed.
If I apply this philosophy, Satan’s evil acts should be resisted but at the same time allowing for his redemption back into God’s house.
Although I have lost touch with organized religion I still follow the teachings of my parents (I guess you could say religiously). Gotta give Mom credit. She was wise beyond her years.
If you want to delve this issue, you need to know about al-Husayn ibn Mansur al-Hallaj (d. 922). He taught that Satan was the most perfect lover of Allah. The Qur’an says that Allah created Adam and ordered the angels to kowtow sujûd) to Adam. Only Iblis refused, and when Allah asked why, he answered that he was so devoted to Allah that he could never bow down to anyone else. For this uncompromising devotion he was condemned to eternal torment in the lake of fire. So al-Hallaj held this up as an example of the greatest love for Allah that there could be. For many such unorthodox teachings, al-Hallaj was crucified and beheaded in Baghdad, and his body incinerated. In later years, he became the most beloved and venerated of Sufi saints all over the Muslim world.
Perhaps it’s those who can’t see it that are “screwed up” If we are eternal beings only temporarily experiencing this physical life then the worst villians in history are no more than actors on a stage playing a certain role. When you leave the theater after seeing a movie you don’t cling to hate for the villian.
As Jesus said. It’s easy to love the loveable. Everybody does that. The real challenge is to remain focused on the eternal qualities of life when the our situation becomes the most challenging.
You make a good point. How can we choose unless we have things to choose from. Until Adam and Eve {metaphor} could see the difference they were in a state of bliss and couldn’t choose. Adam bites the apple and suddenly “Hey Eve, nice rack” It’s been all downhill from there.
Ever see Bedazzled in which Elizabeth Hurley plays Satan?
What’s not to love? Hubba hubba
As this thread has returned, I want to move on slightly to the second part of the OP.
How should people who wish to be good people love Fred Phelps?
Satan I could warm up to. Phelps? No fucking way.
Love Phelps in the same way that you love all your brothers and sisters on this earth. Do no harm to him, and if he is in need, give to him that which he needs. If he speaks ill of you, return his words with kindness, and with understanding. Speak to him of the love of God, the love of Christ, and the love of his fellow man. He may not agree with you. If he tells you of the heart and mind of the God, know he is speaking to the Lord, even if he does not know it. The hatred he offers in God’s name is offered to God Himself. Let God do with it, as He will.
If you believe that he condemns you for your actions, and that he should not, then by that logic, so you must not condemn him. It is not your office to judge his heart of any man, but rather all hearts are revealed to the Lord, and the authority of judgement is His. If he contends with you, and invites you to condemn him, decline, for we are each and all sinners, yet each is beloved of Christ.
Kindness and compassion are the reflection of Christ in your heart. When you feel them leave your heart, you are turning away from Him. Turn around.
Tris