Thomas Cromwell
Cromwell was far smarter than Musk.
Stranger
Orders of magnitude apart, yes. But still had a similar role, arguably.
Ernst Röhm was a muscle guy, head of the SA and killed in the Night of the Long Knives on Hitler’s orders (reference for those who don’t know, not you, Smapti).
I think Musk is closer to Martin Bormann, Hitler’s personal secretary, who was extremely powerful but did have a ministry of his own.
But it’s hard to think of someone close to Hitler who was either from big business, or brought in suddenly to shake things up, or both. I don’t think there is a close analogy.
I think that’s pretty close to the truth. Musk is in there to:
- Do what he is supposedly doing, so that Trump can point to him and say, “Look what we’re doing!” The actual competence level doesn’t matter all that much (or so Trump thinks).
- Fuck things up and be obnoxious. Trump is, in effect, dedicating a large chunk of his trolling work to him.
- Per your observation, be a kind of “rolling fall guy” on whom Trump can lay blame in small pieces along the way, as convenient. And eventually dump for good when convenient.
Related question to fall outs and throwing Musk under the bus, though it may be suited to it’s own thread eventually (If so, I pre-approve the mods to Spin it off as it’s own, but I don’t think it’s enough material to justify it’s own thread or I would have)…
We have the Administration’s formal acknowledgement of the “actual” head of DOGE, and Musk’s role in it is extremely unclear. Yet, Musk has made demands via internal, official communication. Which have then been depreciated or not. This is, to me, a viable cause for a massive class-action lawsuit IF Musk’s actual role and authority are NOT given cover by Trump. And considering the flack various Congresscritter’s have gotten from supporters regarding Musk, and Musk upstaging Trump (and the meme’s further reinforcing it) could lead to the falling out center to this thread.
So of course, I’m sure the administration can still create said cover, but if they don’t, do we think a lawsuit (not against the government, but against Musk directly) is viable?
The thing is that none of those other Musky sidekicks was the richest man on the planet. That takes it to a whole other level in influence. Elon doesn’t have to play complicated power games. He can just pay for compliance in a wide variety of ways. And there’s the fact that he isn’t really doing these things in service to Trump. It’s all about his own profit. So no one else has ever had an Elon. This is an entirely new version of authoritarianism.
Your thoughts make sense, and there is already a flurry of lawsuits having to do with DOGE. It’s almost impossible to follow, there are so many…
Excellent summation. I think you nailed it. Musk and Trump both have their very personal reasons for wanting to destroy the federal bureaucracy. As you say, Musk offers the mechanisms by which this can happen without any real input from Congress. Not that the Republican-controlled Congress would do much to stop them - they haven’t and they won’t
It’s oligarchy destroying what’s left of a democracy and democratic institutions that operate in the public interest. Soon these institutions will be hollowed out and will be indisputably under the direct control of the Executive, regardless of whatever statutes say.
This regime change will also impact the relationship between the Executive and the other two branches. The America of co-equal branches of government is dead. We will have a president-directed legislature and a president-directed judiciary. You can already see this happening. You remember those reports of rowdy town halls full of people angry about federal employs and offices in their districts being impacted by DOGE? Congresspeople supposedly being chastened and threatening to block the extreme budget cuts that are coming? Well, none of that happened. They all fell into line like good little MAGA soldiers. They’d rather face the prospects of losing an election than getting primaried and getting kicked out of the MAGA club. It’s downhill from here.
I agree that that’s what they want, but I disagree that they will succeed.
Musk is bringing positive attention to the Trump administration, and he’s not being overtly threatening to Trump. Moreover it appears Trump himself is checked-out and not super attentive to anything.
While Trump is President, Musk can’t take him on. While Tesla and SpaceX stock hold their value, Musk is the richest man on earth, and Trump can’t take him on. Each of them have rabid cults defending them.
I remain convinced that these guys know that they have more in common than differences, that they are vulnerable if divided, and that they are both political apex predators who avoid confrontation with each other because neither can afford even a moderate injury.
On the contrary, as President Trump can crush Musk like a bug any time he feels like it. Unrestrained hard power beats soft power; if Trump really wanted to he could have Musk stropped of his assets and thrown into some black site somewhere or just shot & dumped in the middle of the ocean. And there wouldn’t be a thing Musk could do to stop him. Just ask the Russian oligarchs who “fell out of windows” how effective money is in stopping a dictator.
Trump just doesn’t want to, and Musk is too dumb and arrogant to realize Trump has him at his mercy.
Is this true anymore? He got all the votes of the dummies he needed, and as long as he has a dozen cult members left, he’s going to proclaim that everyone who isn’t deranged LOVES him
It could be that, as Trump becomes more and more demented and out of touch, he really doesn’t know any more how much people like him.
They may not, but they will go to the mat trying.
Reopening this thread because of the incredibly cringe press conference / car advert, with Trump, Elon and little Elon.
What the hell?!
“Tesla…it burns up the road like a Reichstag Fire!”
Stranger
Musk supposedly wants to invest $100 million in Trump affiliated SuperPACs. In terms of funding, I am unaware of any acting official nfkuencing policy in such a partisan and public way. Trump, in return, said he would buy a red Tesla and used the White House to display Tesla’s wares.
Trump’s sabrerattling helped lower Tesla stock by 45% in a month. So maybe this is unsurprising. No matter. Musk is at least $300 billion richer since supporting Trump and can rely on government contracts. Tesla would not be much affected by tariffs, and stands to gain if many American automobile companies are weakened by punitive tariffs and haphazard government intervention.
I do not think Musk and Trump will fall out. I think Musk has purchased a government that has much to lose without his munificence and a president whom he has helped make rich.
Don’t be so sure of that; despite Musk pitching how all-American the Tesla is, that aluminum and steel (and the copper for wiring harnesses, and likely the glass for windows) is mostly if not all imports. I’m not sure about microprocessors but I would guess that he’s getting those from China or Korea, and of course all of his x.AI aspirations are based upon GPUs and sub-5nm chips that are mostly produced in Taiwan. (Yes, the TSMC operation in Arizona has reportedly already started production on 4nm and 5nm chips but we’ll see what their defect rate is and how fast they can scale up production to meet demand.)
Musk has already effectively bought his access into Trump, but he may not stay bought if there are more pressing interests. And Peter Thiel, the long-time backer of JD Vance, is reportedly not too happy about the spectacle that Musk is making of himself and drawing attention to the SiVal billionaires efforts to subvert the government instead of just outright destroying it. If Trump keels over and Vance becomes president (ugh!) then who knows what Elon’s fate is. For all that his is “The World’s Richest Man”
nearly all of his wealth is fantasy money from market speculation of Tesla and SpaceX (which is reportedly valued at US$350B even though it is a private company that has refused to open its books), and that is a bubble that could pop at any time.
Stranger