If you're God, how would you change the way the world works?

Great Debates
41

Captain Amazing.

I still don’t quite get it. It isn’t like you are taking control of the humans and forcign them to do things puppetter style – you are merely making laws, and enforcing them. I mean, we don’t talk all about how the United States has no Free Will because murderers get punished. If I were on a jury, I wouldn’t say “Well, he should get away with it because he knows there is such a thing as right from wrong”. I’d punish him. And, if I was a superpowerful juror, I’d punish him right after it happened. And, if I were an omnipotent juror – well, then, intent would be enough – if you wanted to do it, and go to the point where you were doing it, then you are guilty – no one needs to suffer just to prove that.

And, I agree, growing, learning and developing is important – but if my (hypothetical) child is hitting another kid at the playground, I make him/her understand that isn’t acceptable behaviour. Because, really, no one wants to get hit. I don’t care that the child is Developing in some metaphysical sense – I just care that he/she is hurting someone else. But, of course, I am assuming no concept of Eternal Hell – so people would have the ability (however limited) to contradict me. ( and if you looked at my 2nd post, the ability to escape my “Justice” )

I mean, my (hypothetical) cat isn’t allowed to climb onto the table, but that doesn’t make him “Impossible to love”.
Frankly, watching him weigh the odds is pretty endearing.

(all this adds up to my inability to see “[Having children as a way to] understand a little better what it’s like to be me”. Frankly, the God you describe is in human terms a dead-beat dad. (Please don’t take offense))
As for longevity – frankly, I think 80 years is a pretty good amount of time to live. And, given the way everyone squanders it, maybe 40 would have been enough. But to die at 25 in agony when everyone else lives to 80? And, Mortality doesn’t HAPPEN. I AM GOD! Mortality (and everything else in the entire universe ) is My divine will. That cancer is caused by me – I thought he needed more suffering, so I killed him early? Maybe you’d do that, but not me. Maybe I was afraid that if he became older, he would build a tower so high it would reach God? BAH. Everyone deserves a chance at “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”, and given omnipotence, I’d even allow everyone the chance to evolve into moral animals. And, that takes years.

Me’Corva

42

If it existed before it had a body and soul, then either
a) it doesn’t need a body/soul, and would have no reason to make one
or
b) it does have a want or need, and is thus imperfect.

43

<Sigh> Scylla’s over there inciting his people to genocidal war, rape, and kidnapping, but nobody criticizes him…

Ok, here’s the way I see it. I HAVE made laws. I’ve also set up a system of enforcement. I’ve said to my people, “You will set up courts to enforce these laws”. I guess you and I have two different approaches, because it seems like your ultimate plan is for people to grow to be apart from you. My plan is for people to grow to be close to me. Even though I compared it to having kids, the people I’ve created aren’t children (except, obviously, for the ones who are). They have a complete sense of morality, and are already moral animals, just ones that do evil sometimes. You say that your cat isn’t allowed to jump up on the table, but you see, he’s still able to jump up on it. You could prevent him from doing so either by always watching him and punishing him when he thinks about jumping up on it, or by amputating his hind legs so he’s unable to, but neither of these are good ideas. I find that watching humans weigh the odds and deciding what to do pretty endearing too.

As for the 25 year old boy, I didn’t kill him, and he didn’t die because of anything he did or might someday do. I did set up the world so that it’s possible for cancer to happen. Maybe you don’t like that. I admit, I’m not fond of it, but as I said in a prior post, I decided that the ability for living things to have children was more important than immortality. It’s also not like he’s gone. The fundimental part of him…the part that makes him more than an animal, is spending eternity in my presence, better, and more able to learn and understand, free from pain and suffering, and he’ll be with me, like that, forever. So, by dying, what has he lost? The ability to feel pain? The ability to be hurt?

44

Frankly, I believe Scylla is making some weird satire. I am afraid to read it too carefully though, as I may go/get mad.

Yes, you’ve made laws, but you then abdicated responsibility for enforcement. You told your people to “set up courts to enforce these laws”, but if your people do, you ignore them, and if they don’t you ignore them. Frankly, it isn’t that surprising that no one listens. =:<

As for the cat example, we are mixing two different concepts. One is, it is possible to make laws and enforce them, while still allowing freedom of choice. I gave an example with my cat, who isn’t a moral animal. But, you could give an example with you mother or father, who are, and my point would still hold. It is very possible to give moral animals moral choices while still enforcing a set of basic laws.

Another concept, which probably didn’t come clear, is I would minimize the collateral damage of one person making an immoral decision. So, the easiest example of this is: if two people at a bar decide they need to fight for some reason ( assume for now this is immoral ), and they go at it, at worst, someone breaks a bone, and they learn for the next 3-6 months that it has consequences. If two people with swords decide to fight, someone can die. If two people with automatic weapons in a mall decide to fight, 10s of people can die. Yet, all of them broke the moral concept “don’t fight”. So, I’d just make sure that situations 3 or more don’t happen. People can still disobey me, but they can’t hurt hundreds of people while doing it.

As for the 25 year old, we’re quickly diverging into points of view so far away, even the words we use in common mean different things. :< I say that you, as a responsible adult, had the ability to keep him from suffering and dying. You decided not to act, and therefore his blood is on your hands. As for infinite heaven/spending eternity in my presence, any time I (as God) have to spend an eternity making up for messing up someones life – I should know that what I’m doing is wrong. =:> But, as a more serious answer, he has lost the ability to grow outside your presence – which was granted to everyone else. And, yes, without the ability to be hurt, he HAS lost the ability to grow. (oh, and incidentally, has lost the ability to ever have children. ooops. )

Oh, and don’t take my “grow away from me” too literally. After all, I as a person have grown away from my parents very much since I was 3 – I no longer base all my decisions on them, nor consider them next to godliness. Yet, I understand them better, and am more like them – so am paradoxically closer to them. That is the meaning I was going for.

Me’Corva