"I'm having an affair.", and more...

[steronz]

@ThePretender919

I have been extremely supportive of my wife throughout our marriage with respect to her self worth, self image, and attractiveness. I NEVER told her she was fat, ugly, etc. I NEVER demeaned her.

When I have had serious conversations with her it’s always been about improving our relationship, never in a mean-spirited way.

I hear and understand what you’re saying, and I didn’t say you demeaned her in any way. What you’re describing is a friendship. You treat your friends like that, not insulting them, encouraging them, etc.

Treating someone who loves you like a friend hurts. It hurts when you get rejected by that girl you’ve been lusting after who says she just wants to be friends, and it really fucking hurts when it’s the person you married, who used to look at you differently. I know you’re just telling her how you feel and being honest, but you have to put yourself in her shoes and realize how that’s going to make her feel. It’s not going to make her happy, and now you have to live with an unhappy person.

@ThePretender919

I can’t control how I feel, and I can’t MAKE myself feel a certain way. I can only attempt to change the situation so that I feel differently.

Well I think you can control how you feel. You have a lot more control over your emotions than you realize.

[ThePretender919]

@partypooper

In my experience with relationships (marriage and children were not involved), once you get to the point where there’s nothing about your partner that you find attractive, there’s no amount of forcing will fix that. Are you at the point where you hate little things about her that shouldn’t bother you? Like the way she chews her food or the way she laughs?
Even so, time apart can help. That’s why there’s separation before divorce. I hated my ex after the breakup and the feeling was mutual, but it was because we were bitter. We went through six months of not even speaking before we ran into each other at a party. Now we are hanging out on occasion, kind of dating again. Maybe even falling in love again. It can happen, but if you’re involved with someone else it won’t.
I’d suggest talking with your wife and proposing a separation. But you also need to separate from the woman you’re seeing. You say you never knew what it was like to be single, take this opportunity to actually be single. Don’t date anyone. I promise that living on your own will make you miss things about your wife that you take for granted. She’ll have the same type of experience.

But don’t just keep this affair going for as long as you can, that’s not fair to you, your wife, or the other woman. Does she plan on leaving her husband? If she absolutely will not then what’s the point of continuing? You two can never have a life of your own.

I think you need to remove all romance from your life (not just the one with your wife) and take time to reflect on this. There are deeper issues here, and you’re probably completely ignoring your part in the downfall of the relationship. Take time to figure yourself out and let some of the bitterness fade before just hopping on the first train out of town.

Thanks for this post.

I agree that it’s not fair to anyone.

And I’ve been trying very hard over the last couple years to reflect on myself and what I’m doing wrong, or could do better. Why I am at where I’m at.

[Cognoscant]

@Poysyn

If you get divorced and you and the other woman stya together, be prepared to be potentially potrayed as evil, and your ex-wife and kids will hate both you and the other woman. Her kids will hate you.

Are you ready for that part of it?

IME he’d be portrayed as evil whether or not another woman was involved. My friends all left me when I got divorced, mainly because my ex told our friends fantastic lies about what I’d done during the marriage and conveniently left out the fact she was having an affair during the lion’s share of it. We didn’t have kids but I’m certain I would have been portrayed to them as a demon from Hell and her new beau as the knight in shining armor who saved them. No matter who is to blame for the marriage breaking up, the kids are going to believe the person they stay with. I’ve seen it over and over again.

Deciding to stay in a marriage because otherwise “the kids will hate you” is a bad idea. If the OP and his wife are constantly fighting with each other in a marriage that shouldn’t keep going, the kids are going to hate the OP anyway. They’ll hate his wife too, but that’s small consolation.

[Kent_Clark]

@Cognoscant

I ask you, kunilou, exactly what would you, marriage counselor, say to the OP and his wife to move them closer together? Because in all honesty, as the survivor of a marriage broken in the way the OP wants to break his marriage, I cannot think of anything that would help.

Cognoscant, I, too had a first wife who cheated and left me for another guy. Counseling was a failure and I don’t pretend that it’s going to work for everyone, the OP included.

The OP said he tried to have a conversation with her and insists several times that he never belittled her weight or general attractiveness. The wife’s takeaway was “Said I called her grotesque (which I didn’t).” Clearly, he didn’t get his point across as well as he wanted to.

What I think counseling can do is provide a neutral third-party to help clear up what each party is really trying to say. A decent counselor will be looking for signs of depression or other conditions which may make it harder for the couple to connect. A counselor can help the OP try to sort the differences between truly loving someone and venting frustrations through an affair. And finally, a counselor can help them work out what they need to do to hurt the kids as little as possible.

[ThePretender919]

@Lanzy

You had doubts in the beginning? Did the doubts ever completely go away? Married young is not much of an excuse, not being honest from the get go of your relationship is.
After all these years you want to start being honest? Then honestly go get a divorce, she deserves better.

They came and went I guess.

I think married young is a pretty valid reason, if not excuse, for feeling the way I do, and having things go the way they have went. I didn’t know what life was about back then. I didn’t know what I wanted in life. I had no clue. Yet, I made one of the biggest decisions of my life.

I don’t know what you mean about “suddenly” being honest now.

[ThePretender919]

@filmore

This board is great for many things, but serious marriage advice is better served by marriage forums. There are many great marriage boards on the net. Seek them out and get their advice. They have been through it all and will be able to give you much more relevant advice. There you’ll find lots of people who worked it out, lots of people who split up, and lots of people who kept it secret.

One thing you need to realize that you’re not entitled to have an affair regardless of how the marriage is going. Having an affair because you’re not happy is like robbing a bank because you’re poor. Either stop having the affair or get your wife’s permission. It is never okay to have an affair and there is no justification for it.

Since you have kids, I would strongly urge you to think of them first. Fighting, affairs, and divorce can have a crushing emotional impact on them. You think you have it rough. Ha! Handle this situation wrong and your kids will be skipping school, having sex, and doing drugs by the time they’re in 6th grade. Maybe that means you work it out, or maybe you get divorced, but make sure you minimize the impact to their lives. You’re the one screwing up. Don’t screw up their lives in the process.

I might check them out some day. But I like forums like this, where you have such a wide net of personalities and life experiences.

I have never thought that I was “entitled” to have an affair.

And believe me, I think of my kids and their futures and what would be best from them. Perhaps you could argue that I wasn’t thinking of them when I started the affair, but I am where I am today, and they are in the front of my mind in trying to figure out what to do.

[ThePretender919]

@Sahirrnee

random thoughts

It’s very easy to be passionate and in love when there are no responsibilities to go along with it. Divorce your wife and marry your lover and once you have to deal with realities of mortgage payments, lack of money, bratty kids, dirty dishes and piles of laundry, passion and romance can go right out the window and you are right back in the same situation you are in now.

Being in love and being in lust are not the same thing. Adults should know the difference.

You should end one relationship before you start the next. Ideally, you should take a break between relationships to work on yourself, figure out what you want and get rid of your baggage before jumping into the next relationship.

In the event you both leave your spouses, get divorced and want to spend your lives together, do you really want to marry a woman who cheats on her husband? Oh sure, right now it’s all hearts and flowers, rainbows and unicorns, but the truth is both of you are cheaters and if you think knowing that won’t affect any future you may be planning together you are deceiving yourselves.
I know women who dated married men and were so happy to finally get him and marry him. Not one of them is happy, not one of them trusts her husband. It will always be in the back of your mind that she cheated on him, it will always be in the back of her mind that you cheated on your ex.

When is the last time your wife has seen a doctor, has she ever been evaluated for depression?
Have you tried counseling?

She has not been evaluated for depression. She claims she is perfectly happy no matter what her body language and attitude says.

We have not been to counseling.

[ThePretender919]

@Merneith

Have you introduced her to your kids yet? How do you think she’s going to handle the role of “other woman who broke up the family?” Go do that and then come back and tell us all about your “soulmate connection”.

Of course not. And I don’t know how she’d handle it.

But nothing has been decided on either end, so it’s premature to project.

I’m not sure what that has to do with the claim of how strong our connection is.

[ThePretender919]

@SaharaTea

If you do get counseling, you need to end the affair first. Don’t go into it half-assed.

But I’m not seeing anything indicating you’re ready to end the affair. You’ve already checked out of the marriage emotionally and physically; you’d probably be doing your wife a huge favor by filing for divorce.

Living with divorced parents can be tough, but living with miserable parents who are only together for the sake of the kids (while one of them is fucking someone else) can be a whole lot worse.

@Dung_Beetle

I’ve been on both sides of this one, so no moral superiority from me. I just want to say that although you may be having fun right now, that will run out quick. Before long, you’ll have your hands full just lying and remembering previous lies. Also, you will get caught. Your risk is doubled because she’s married too. One of your spouses is going to catch on. Think about it, because that day is going to be a really bad one, followed by lots of others.
Also, people that find out about this will consider you a shitheel “forevermore”, to quote someone upthread.

My advice: just stop before it’s too late. Then figure out what next.

I’m trying to help you, man.

Of course “end the affair” is probably the best short term solution to prevent people getting hurt. With the feelings we’ve developed, it’s easier said than done. And again, I understand that people will just think it’s a sex based lust, but it is not.

[Rowanchilde]

No one wakes up one morning and just decides today would be a great day to fuck up my life and everyone else’s that I love. There are so many stages to infidelity in a marriage. Someone who has never been in the OP’s shoes has no idea…

I realize that we only have one side of the story (and it’s VERY typical, so easily unbelievable), but if it is to be trusted I can understand why you are where you are. I’m going to take you at face value. In my opinion your marriage is over. You seem to be at the point of no return, likely to never get those feelings back. That happens sometimes…

The reality is you’re not going to cut off the affair, you’re still at that tingling stage where she can do no wrong. But we all know the chances of it working out nicely are next to nil. It will end on both your parts, but badly. As someone mentioned above the chances of getting caught are more likely…

I do feel for you though. It must be miserable to feel dead ended and like so much of life has passed you by. I would sit her down and explain all of this as gently as possible (and although you will be tempted, make no mention of the affair). Stick to your guns and file for divorce…

Forget the counseling, save yourself the money. You are going to need it…

[ThePretender919]

@kambuckta

Unlike many posters here, I am of the opinion that divorce is not the End of the World, nor an Unpardonable Sin, does not mean you are morally corrupt, and does not mean your kids are going to end up as junkie hookers by Grade 6.

You’re unhappy in your marriage. You’ve tried many times to change the things that make your marriage less than satisfactory. Sure, you could try counselling, but if your OP is even half true, then it sounds like your wife has essentially given up on the marriage already.

And yes, it might mean a big financial hit (what age ranges are the kids?) but at the end of the day, it’s your LIFE here at stake. Are you prepared to sit this out for five, ten, thirty years for the sake of a ‘marriage’? For fuck’s sake, get out while you’re both still young enough to get some enjoyment out of life.

I don’t think the affair is something you should place much store in btw. Like others have said, three months is a helluva short time: get out and meet new people, all sorts of people, have flings, fall in love, get burned, all the things that make up a full and fulfilled life.

Remain a good daddy for your kids, treat your wife with respect during the difficult months ahead, and go live life. You only get one shot at it.
*
For full disclosure, I’m female, have never had an affair but my ex husband was a chronic philanderer and I understand now why he did what he did. *

Good luck!

This is the crux of the matter, really.

It’s the details that are killer.

Despite what some may think by my recent actions, I am a good person. I don’t want anyone to get hurt. I want to be happy. I want my kids to be happy. I want my wife to be happy.

[ThePretender919]

@Mr.Nylock

People will say you’re a bad person, you’re weak you’re wrong. But FWIW I don’t feel that way. I read your post and I shed a few tears when I read you had kids, it’s just a subject I’m sensitive about. Things that remind me too much of the past make me feel that way. You can try to be a good person, you can end the affair do the noble thing and whatnot. You can go through the motions, but maybe that’s not right for your family. It reminds me of my parents, their relationship, they had personality differences - and all they did was fight every single night, I never saw them affectionate towards each other. I don’t think it was a good thing for me, I did not really develop empathy or emotions in a way that people from better kinds of backgrounds do being exposed to that kind of constant anger and tension. They tried their best, they are good people, but For lots of reasons there is no doubt in my mind that if they had done what was emotionally right for themselves than the “noble” thing of staying together for the kids it would have been better for everyone.

Thanks for your post. Thanks not for agreeing with me or validating me or whatever else, but for understanding that things are not easy and things are definitely not black and white.

[ThePretender919]

@Poysyn

Go to counselling, either to save your marriage or at least get each other working toward at least a partially amiable break-up.

If you get divorced and you and the other woman stya together, be prepared to be potentially potrayed as evil, and your ex-wife and kids will hate both you and the other woman. Her kids will hate you.

Are you ready for that part of it?

I am not going to get divorced and turn around and move in with this other woman. I have seen it before, and seen the exact hate you describe.

IF I ever get divorced and IF somehow I end up with this woman, it will be done slowly, over time, with extreme tact.

[ThePretender919]

@astro

When you get to the point where there is (effectively even if not overt) mutual contempt for each other it’s pretty much over. People follow their tendencies and she does not have any tendency to want to be in shape or be socially interactive.

Counseling is not going to help. These types of people are very stubborn and will not change regardless of your entreaties. Asking her to do this or to be more affectionate is like banging your head against the wall. Nothing is going to change.

The bottom line is you need to leave. The price for leaving is that you can be with someone who makes you happy, but be crystal clear that

1: At least 1/3 or more of your income will be going to CS and possibly even temporary spousal support. You will need to have a more economical lifestyle.

2: She will have primary (even if shared) custody so you will see your kids much less often. Despite whatever push you make to stay connected it’s not the same as being at home.

3: She will probably try in various way to turn the kids against you.

4: Don’t count on your current lady love to support you over the long haul in this, she has her own life to live. This needs to be YOUR decision and you need to own the responsibilities and consequences. If you after divorce fantasy life is wedded to her sticking around you need to consider what it will be like without her and you all on your own.

5: You really need to break off the affair if you start divorce proceedings and keep your mouth firmly shut while it happens. Yapping about it will cause a huge shitstorm where you are portrayed as the bad guy with everyone in your social circle. If you feel the need or compulsion to confess this affair it will make everything (emotionally) 10X worse. You will be a ****ing idiot if you start blabbing. It will help no one.

You are correct with regard to her changing.

I agree with all of your points, except #3. She is not like that, at all. She would encourage our relationship as much as possible.

[ThePretender919]

@steronz

I hear and understand what you’re saying, and I didn’t say you demeaned her in any way. What you’re describing is a friendship. You treat your friends like that, not insulting them, encouraging them, etc.

Treating someone who loves you like a friend hurts. It hurts when you get rejected by that girl you’ve been lusting after who says she just wants to be friends, and it really fucking hurts when it’s the person you married, who used to look at you differently. I know you’re just telling her how you feel and being honest, but you have to put yourself in her shoes and realize how that’s going to make her feel. It’s not going to make her happy, and now you have to live with an unhappy person.

Well I think you can control how you feel. You have a lot more control over your emotions than you realize.

Thanks for the clarification. What other options did I have? How does it help if the issue(s) come out in counseling rather than me trying to sit down and have an open honest conversation with my wife? Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?

I disagree that you can control your feelings. You can control your responses to those feelings, but primarily not the feelings themselves.

[ThePretender919]

@Cognoscant

IME he’d be portrayed as evil whether or not another woman was involved. My friends all left me when I got divorced, mainly because my ex told our friends fantastic lies about what I’d done during the marriage and conveniently left out the fact she was having an affair during the lion’s share of it. We didn’t have kids but I’m certain I would have been portrayed to them as a demon from Hell and her new beau as the knight in shining armor who saved them. No matter who is to blame for the marriage breaking up, the kids are going to believe the person they stay with. I’ve seen it over and over again.

Deciding to stay in a marriage because otherwise “the kids will hate you” is a bad idea. If the OP and his wife are constantly fighting with each other in a marriage that shouldn’t keep going, the kids are going to hate the OP anyway. They’ll hate his wife too, but that’s small consolation.

I should clarify that we aren’t “constantly fighting”. We merely exist together. We have fights now and then like anyone, but generally not in front of the kids.

[Ferret_Herder]

@ThePretender919

And I also understand multiple people thinking “soul mates lolol”. But I’ve never had this type of connection with anyone, sex aside.

You’ve never looked at a woman like she was a life preserver before.

(She’s not, by the way.)

[ThePretender919]

@Rowanchilde

No one wakes up one morning and just decides today would be a great day to fuck up my life and everyone else’s that I love. There are so many stages to infidelity in a marriage. Someone who has never been in the OP’s shoes has no idea…

I realize that we only have one side of the story (and it’s VERY typical, so easily unbelievable), but if it is to be trusted I can understand why you are where you are. I’m going to take you at face value. In my opinion your marriage is over. You seem to be at the point of no return, likely to never get those feelings back. That happens sometimes…

The reality is you’re not going to cut off the affair, you’re still at that tingling stage where she can do no wrong. But we all know the chances of it working out nicely are next to nil. It will end on both your parts, but badly. As someone mentioned above the chances of getting caught are more likely…

I do feel for you though. It must be miserable to feel dead ended and like so much of life has passed you by. I would sit her down and explain all of this as gently as possible (and although you will be tempted, make no mention of the affair). Stick to your guns and file for divorce…

Forget the counseling, save yourself the money. You are going to need it…

I am trying to be as honest as possible. I have no reason to lie to the people reading this thread, as I am trying to get completely honest, sometimes brutally so, opinions. If there are questions about my story, things that have or haven’t happened, things I have/haven’t done, etc., ask them and I will respond as best I can.

And I do know that having an affair is not the solution to “getting those feelings back”, if that’s even physically possible at this point. It was what I needed, or thought I needed, at the time I guess.

[astro]

@ThePretender919

You are correct with regard to her changing.

I agree with all of your points, except #3. She is not like that, at all. She would encourage our relationship as much as possible.

That’s what you think* now*. Post-divorce or if she finds out about the affair there will likely be a sea change in that attitude. If she struggles with being single post divorce the blame is going to fall squarely on you and the kids will get an earful from her side. Count on it.

[Bullitt]

To me it sounds like the OP has already decided to leave, but to the OP and about his lover I’ll say this:

After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting.