well then you’re screwed. At some point you’re going to have to cut him loose and let him sink or swim on his own. Best if you don’t wait until he’s 45 to do so.
well, then I can clearly see the problem here.
why do people ask for advice when they’re dead set on ignoring it?
You can ruin your relationship with him by badgering, nagging, threatening, hovering, micromanaging, yelling, and/or punishing him at every turn. But not giving him a car? That’s not a punishment or even an action. If not giving him a car ruins your relationship, there’s nothing there to ruin.
You may be surprised to learn that your son is actually not as concerned about getting a car as you assume. He has never had one before and seems to be satisfied with life. Today’s kids don’t seem to be itching to get cars and licenses with the same fervor as previous generations, probably because their parents cheerfully comply with most of their wishes, chauffeuring them around and filling their homes with entertainment and snacks. I’m sure he’d like a car of course, but his behavior belies his apathy on the subject.
I see that not only can I solicit your opinions, I’m then required to agree with them.
Yep. The world is going to kick his ass if he continues on this path. I’m simply coming around to the conclusion that having tried everything else I can think of, this is how he needs to learn this lesson.
The thread has given me some good ideas. For one, giving him the ultimatum when he hits 18 and graduates high school: College, job, or military. He ain’t livin’ in my basement on my dime.
That’s a conversation I’m going to have with him very soon.
Why do people assume that their advice is like manna from heaven and those who disagree, even in part, are just too stupid to know that wisdom is being lavished upon them?
I don’t believe a car is anyone’s “birthright”. Certainly wasn’t mine. I took Grotonian’s comments are taking poetic license with that idea. YMMV.
It’s not a binary state. I can one the one hand want him to have a car while on the other feel like he hasn’t earned it, all the while being at a loss as to what will light a fire under that kid.
There is nothing wrong with this approach. Nothing at all. In fact, I completely agree with much of what you and others say. But it’s not a one size fits all and it doesn’t fit my kid. Which leaves me baffled as to what the right decision is.
No, but it’s disrespectful (and revealing of your own emotional bias) to roll your eyes simply because someone expresses disagreement with an opinion.
Right, but by setting him so that he’s ill-prepared for this inevitable ass kicking by, you’re not doing right by him. You’re enabling him to continue the status quo.
You told him if he doesn’t bring his grades up, then he won’t be getting a free car from you. Right? By reneging on this deal, all you’re showing him is that your word means absolutely nothing. Him merely existing was enough to get you to fold. He has called your bluff without even trying. Isn’t that something? Perhaps there is a lesson in this for you.
I don’t believe tough love starts when the kid reaches the age of majority. You should start weaning him off the teat of your unconditional charity now, so that when he’s an adult and it’s time for him to be independent, it’s easier on both of you. You’re caring too much about whether he’s going to like you. At this point it would be healthier for him to be worried that you’re going to like him.
He already knows that he isn’t living up to some of my expectations, mostly around academics. And that has had no impact. He already knows that I see him as being bone idle and he ups the game every time by doing less and less. To my mind’s eye, it’s become a power struggle between me and him. I am concerned it’s not going anywhere good and that resentment will begin to grow where the is now merely conflict about some basic expectations.
I’ll give you simple real world example. We just moved and yesterday I asked him to make up his bed after we’d finished putting it together. Make his bed unpack his room and put things away. There isn’t that much since he doesn’t live with me full time. He opened the box of linens and saw that the blue sheets were in there. He decided he wanted the beige ones. I said the beige hand’t been washed and I didn’t know where they were at the moment, but I washed the blue before packing them, so please just use those for now. He said fine. Closed his door and set about the grim task. Or so I thought.
Come to find out, he didn’t bother putting on the wool mattress pad. There it sat in a box in the middle of his room - like we’re not surrounded with enough boxes already. When I asked him why, he said he just didn’t feel like it. Now, most would say, “meh, 15 year stubborn little shit”. But this happens often enough that I’m feeling like there more to this than just him being bone idle. It feels like a power struggle to me. Perhaps I’m reading more into it than I should?
Anyway, I don’t want the license/car to be just another in a series of headstrong power battles between me and my son. It seems to me there has to be another way.
Some have recommended therapy. Perhaps I should get some. 
His fighting style is to do nothing, so what are you worried about?
This “battle” would consist of neither of you doing anything related to him getting a car. I’m engaged in this exact battle with every other person on the planet right now, but it’s not even slightly tiring.
The real battle is with yourself in your head. You really want him to have a car. There’s nothing wrong with wanting that, but it’s not to his advantage for you to go back on what you said, to be enabled and rewarded, to be given responsibility he has not demonstrated the ability to handle, to be given another distraction from his studies, or to be deprived of the sense of accomplishment he can only get by working for and achieving his own goal. Don’t indulge yourself at his expense.
If he really wants privileges like a car, he will have to get the motivation to get it himself. And in a way, I hope he did. Because a teenager showing the initiative to get a driver’s license, save up money for a car, insurance and upkeep would be an impressive improvement and demo demonstrate a lot of potential to you.
Right now he is too reliant on you to fix his problems. And why wouldn’t he? He’s not the one paying the bills in the house or taking care of anybody. He has it very easy.
Is the mattress pad required to protect the mattress? Then tell him he needs to put it on. Don’t make a huge deal about it, but he’s created more work for himself, and eventually he’ll grok it.
If the mattress pad is there for comfort, shut up and leave it be. His body, his choice, his comfort. He doesn’t need you to tell him what to do to be comfortable, he can live with that consequence. Choose your battles.
While I still don’t think you should buy him a car, I do want to address the, “you said you wouldn’t, so now you can’t,” argument: Bullshit. People change their minds all the time. Part of being an adult is learning to reassess a situation, predict future outcomes, and change your damn plan when the previous one no longer seems like a good idea.
So if you want to change your mind, change it. Tell him why you made the original ultimatum, explain why you’ve reevaluated that decision, explain why you think your new decision will serve you better, and do it. Now you have not only saved face, you’ve modeled good decision making behavior.
I really want him to step up and do what’s expected. Which really isn’t unreasonable.
Between a college education and the ability to function in the real world, the car is way way down the list of priorities. But it was the ace up my sleeve. I guess I’m having trouble letting go of the fact that I miscalculated his priorities as badly as I have.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with changing your mind, but this sort of waffling is quite possibly why the kid does feel any sense of urgency. Teachers announce deadlines and due dates, then extend and extend them, making the initial date a mere suggestion and not to be taken seriously. A consequence is announced, but half the time the authority figure does not have the heart to go through with it.
The kid assures everyone he will try, then doesn’t. Well, he meant it when he said it, and later changed his mind, just like his teachers and parents have. Why bother saying anything and following through when you can explain and excuse yourself later instead?
Oh, it’s going ON and he’s putting it on!
Not buying. Already have it. It’s my daily driver and the car he’ll learn to drive on.
Quit setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting things based on your own wishful thinking. It is horribly difficult to let go of our hopes and dreams for our children, but it makes room for them to have their own hopes and dreams, which is really what we want anyway, isn’t it?
Right now he is functioning fine is his own real world. He sounds comfortable. When that changes, he will probably make the needed adjustments. He is intelligent, have some faith in him.
I think you’re failing to appreciate that previous punishments, regardless of commitments spanning months in many cases, have never yielded desired results.
This is only good decision making behavior if the reason for the change is good.
“I’m changing my mind because I don’t want you to resent me and it’s not like you’re going to improve anyway” isn’t a defensible rationale. It essentially tells the kid that his feelings towards his father matter more than principles.
“I’m changing my mind because I think a car will help you become self-reliant” *would *be defensible. But sadly, that doesn’t appear to be the truth. It would be a lie. A 16 year-old could see through this too.
Of course he said this! Why wouldn’t he, if he’s been encouraged to think his feelings about doing something matter more than anything else?
I hated cleaning my room as a teenager and never felt like doing it. Would it ever have occurred to me to tell my parents this as an explanation for not doing it? No. That kind of answer would not gotten me anywhere positive, and in fact, would’ve gotten me yelled at. Your son probably says stuff like this because he’s learned it works on you.
Yes, I think you are.
You’re right. But I’m not telling him he has to attend medical school. I’m leaving him to decide what kind of education he wants to pursue. I’m not even telling him he needs to get into top tier college. I just want his marks high enough for a college to even consider admitting him.
As to having faith in him, that’s about the only thing I have left. That’s why I’m considering relaxing my expectations to the point where I’m not setting up hurdles for him to jump over. He’ll find plenty of those as he becomes a young adult. So maybe I’ll let him have my old car for his senior year of high school. And when he graduates he’ll have to make that decision of college/work/military. And then he’ll come to realize what it means to have to give up the luxury of dad’s free car and all the other comforts of living at home and how hard it is to make your own way in the world without a good plan.
no, but the core of this issue is he clearly doesn’t give a shit what you think or want. You can’t make someone care about something.
You think I haven’t yelled? Or that I’m sensitive of people’s feelings?
Ha! 
No. No I cannot.
Which begs the question… do I continue with the stick and carrot approach in light of this evidence, or, is it time to try something different?