Wanting to make your own decisions about how to spend your time is not pathological, nor is wishing to separate yourself psychologically from your parents by making your own choices. Maybe some therapy would help him become a better independent decision maker, but if he doesn’t want to go, it’s just another decision being forced on him, so probably counterproductive.
He isn’t cutting or starving himself, so why treat him as if he is?
(Quote abridged.) I think you’re underestimating the skills of professional counsellors who work with teens. Whether it’s bravado or not, call him on it.
While I agree that the answer, “Because he can”, isn’t very satisfying, it doesn’t mean it’s not just that simple. 15 year old boys aren’t very complex creatures and mine doesn’t display any other behaviour symptoms to indicate the problems run deeper.
However, the follow up question of, “In service of what?” is a fair one. I don’t yet know the answer to that is much beyond my assumption that he’s just chaffing from the chains of parental authority. Would a few sessions with a good therapist reveal that or something unexpected? Perhaps.
I agree, making decisions about you spend your time is not pathological, in and of itself.
What’s pathological is flunking classes just to feel a sense of control over one’s life. Flunk a class because of laziness? That’s bad, but not pathological. Flunk a class because it’s too hard? Not pathological. But flunk simply because Dad wants you pass and you’re out to spite him? That’s crazy enough to make me think that’s not what is happening.
Because a person doesn’t have to cut or starve to merit help from a professional.
I’d also add, that if he were mature and well-adjusted enough to know he wouldn’t benefit from therapy, then the OP wouldn’t have any reason to talk about him on a message board.
The majority of people who need therapy are usually the main ones saying they’re perfectly fine. Because people who need therapy typically lack the insight needed to assess their situations objectively.
Also, he may have an incorrect view of what therapy is all about. Therapists have a lot of different techniques in their tool belts to get clients to open up. It’s not all couches and clipboard and white coats. Sometimes it can even be fun.
So I agree with the suggestion to have him talk with a professional. Not so he can get diagnosed with a disorder or a disease, but because he’s throwing up warning flags that deserve attention, regardless of the cause. Maybe he isn’t destined to become a 30-year-old basement dweller. Maybe when he hits 18, he’ll get his act in gear. But maybe not. If therapy doesn’t work, at least you can say you truly tried everything.
yeah, honestly depression can make people do irrational things like this, and they’ll rarely be forthcoming about their motives.
Not doing your homework gives you that time to spend on something else. It’s not like you have to go out of your way to fail a class. Even though you may have to be physically present, at least you can let your mind wander. Resisting other people telling you it’s time to think about trigonometry or whatever is not pathological.
And no a person need not cut or starve to merit help from a professional, but he hasn’t done anything to merit being forced into therapy he has explicitly stated he does not want.
I’m just chiming in to second (third? fourth?) the therapy idea. Granted, I’m one of those people who thinks a bit of therapy now and then is good for 100% of the population, just like medical check-ups, but still - this is going a bit beyond normal teenage apathy. Not all depressed people spend their time moping around the house and staring out windows forlornly; it can manifest itself in really weird ways. And even if there’s no disorder to stick on him, poking around to figure out his motivations and goals could be really helpful.
He is legally a child. He didn’t want to go to the doctor for shots when he was three, either. If he doesn’t want to continue after three sessions, that’s one thing. If he doesn’t want to try it, that’s another.
I know! I’ll make therapy the prerequisite requirement to the giving him the car!
Wait… we’ve gone full circle again, haven’t we. 
Try all of the suggestions at once, then give him the car, but only for transportation to his now-necessary daily therapy appointments. Also, force him to put wool slipcovers on the car seats every time he drives.
You’ll have him moving out and fending for himself in no time!
Quicksilver, is it possible that something with the divorce and two households between you and his mom/stepdad is a cause for this? No one seems to have brought that up, at least explicitly
You know he’s interested in college, so consider using this to motivate him. Something like:
“We’ve talked about college and you seem really interested in going there after high school. I too want you to go and am willing to do whatever it takes to help you, if that is what you really want. Do you?”
Give him a chance to say yes.
“Okay, that’s what I thought. So hear me out. On Saturday, I’ve made an appointment for both us to meet with Dr. Psychologist. We’ll go there and see what he/she says. All I ask is that keep an open mind and be respectful. What do you say? THey might be able really help you come up with a plan for life after high school.”
Don’t ask him to come; tell him he’s coming. And don’t make an ultimatum or promise him a pony if he cooperates. If he protests, then you need to be prepared to tell him that your wits end and that if he wants your help after graduation, he has to meet you halfway or forget about it.
Woah, holy crap, missed that. Uh, yeah.
My parents separated when I was thirteen and did the dual custody thing. It was terrible. The result was that I didn’t have a home: two homes is no home at all.
I didn’t let school drop, but I came within 24 hours of dropping out of school to bike across the country (!) in February (!!) to join Earth First! (!!!). At some point my parents sat down with me to hash things out, only to hear me explain that I no longer wanted or would tolerate their discipline or rules, but that I would agree to finish high school with good grades if and only if they would drop their idea that they had parental advice or guidance for me. They were stunned, and if they didn’t exactly agree, they didn’t laugh me out of the restaurant either.
I’m not advocating the, to put it mildly, cheeky ultimatum my adolescent self gave my parents. But shit was fucked up, and I was doing my confused and discombobulated and thoroughly disgusted adolescent best to find a way to navigate the instability of my family life at the time.
My dad told me to see a therapist; I outright refused, told him I wouldn’t go to the appointment. So he contacted the guidance counselor and tricked me into seeing a therapist at school. I didn’t find out he was responsible for that event until years later. Don’t do that.
My son was nearly 4 when his mom and I separated and divorced. I’m not sure how much of that he remembers but it wasn’t a protracted or particularly tumultuous process. We never fought in front of or over the kids. So while all divorces are hard on the kids and it’s difficult to know how it affects some kids down the road, I’m sure the fact that two households is all he’s ever known most of his life, must have put him in a position of developing certain coping skills he might otherwise not have.
But I never moved far away and from day one our shared custody agreement ensured that I’d see the kids roughly every other day and they and I have always welcomed more time together rather than less. I have no concerns about the quality of my relationship with either of my kids. But 15 is a hard age. It was with my daughter as well.
Sorry, Quicksilver–I may have been projecting some of my own issues onto your family, up there :).
At the same time, have you talked with your son about the living situation? If he’s bouncing back and forth between households, that might not be his first choice (I sometimes ask parents why they make the kids switch, why the parents don’t volunteer to be the ones switching homes every other day). He might prefer an alternate arrangement.
Splitting time between one parent and the other has never been an issue. As the kids have grown, their mom and I have had less and less reason to maintain regular contact about issues regarding the kids. But we’ve both maintained an understanding that the schedule was reasonably flexible depending on what was going on in our respective lives and the lives of the kids. As they got older and had more social commitments of their own, we varied weeknight and weekend schedules to accommodate that. Everybody is pretty much on top of the situation and understands the give and take of it.
Just to clarify, because I don’t think I saw this but it’s a super long thread:
I know that you really like and value the idea of giving your son a car, QuickSilver, but…
Has your* son* explicitly said that it’s something he really likes or cares about?
Serious question without any snark. The impression I’ve gotten is that he doesn’t care much about even getting his license, let alone a car (which is increasingly common among millennials, as others have said*).
It seems like this is perhaps the case, but it’s SUCH a bizarre concept that you can’t REALLY believe he wouldn’t salivate at the thought of a car. That’s understandable, since it’s a really huge cultural shift that occurred super rapidly.
- I’m an older millennial and I didn’t take my road test until 2 days before my 18th birthday. And I only did it THEN because 1- my permit expired when I turned 18 and I didn’t know if you could get a new one or if I’d be screwed, and 2- I needed to drive to college that fall (commuting). I got rides from friends and generously paid for gas (meaning I gave more money than I cost them).
Truth be told, I’m completely baffled by the lack of importance my kids put on driving. In fact, my daughter who is 18, shows the described lukewarm interest in getting her driver’s license. If we lived in a major metropolitan city and had convenient access to public transportation, I would understand. In most large cities, a car is hassle in many cases. But we live in a metro suburb. There is very little in the way of public transportation and none of it goes to your friends’ house where the party is on Saturday night.
So yeah, it’s fair to say that car access seems less important to my kids than it was to me at their age. Having said that, my son does seem to show more interest in it than his sister did.
My question is, zweisamkeit, you say you bummed rides from friends, etc. So your friends must have had more motivation than you to get their license early. What drove their desire do you think?
As a millenial myself, I got my license ASAP because it was one more checkbox necessary to get the hell out of my parents’ house. They drove me places just fine, no complaints, but I preferred freedom to make my own choices of when to arrive and leave and where to go, if I made an unplanned convenience store stop, etc. I soon found out that I was one of only a couple friends in my circle who had both a license and parents with a car to spare me when I asked for it. I was quite happy with the importance of being the designated driver for all parties - at the end of the night 3-4 people trooped out to my parents car and I drove them all home. I’m sure it made the other parents quite happy that they wouldn’t need to go out at 11 or 12 to pick their kids up.
I may or may not have been part of the reason a few of my friends did not get licenses of their own until after college. Their consensus was “It’s scary as fuck to drive, and I can usually get a ride from someone (parents, friends) anyway.”
I was also scared out of my wits learning to drive but I figured I had to do it or I’d go insane at home. I’m really not sure how anybody puts up with parental control past 14-15 years old. Those that do are made of different stuff than I. Must actually like their parents, maybe.