So, rebel without a clue?
Yeah, I can see that in my son at this age. 
Because it’s important to you.
Kids have a knack for finding the one thing that we really do care about almost as much as them - in some cases, for some parents, more than them - and resenting the hell out of it. For some parents, that’s their job, or their car (remember Cameron’s dad’s car in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? It became the receptacle of all his resentment towards his father.) For you and me, it’s academics. And they see it, they sense it, and they get the bit in their mouths and refuse to move so they can:
*A) individuate from their parent by forming their own priorities **
Remember when they were 2 and they’d yell “NO!” when you asked if they wanted a cookie? Even though they wanted the cookie? Because No was such a powerful word? Same thing here, really. The kid knows that he doesn’t want what you want - not because you’re a bad guy, but just because you’re different people - but he hasn’t yet really figured out what he wants. So he’s stagnant. He’s rejected your values, but not yet formed his own. And the real kicker is that he may very well in the end decide that your values actually do make sense and he may pick up the cookie and start munching and find it delicious. But the idea to do that has to come from him. Otherwise, you’ll just find the cookie on the floor again.
**B) get their parent’s attention **
Despite what we think, even teenagers crave parental attention and approval. Just like toddlers. Only difference is they feel ashamed of that craving, and they’ve learned to control their outward displays. This leads to a lot of internal temper tantrums that are much more subtle and last much longer than toddler temper tantrums.
C) prove to their little martyred hearts whether Mom/Dad does or does not actually love them more than [grades/job/car/etc]
No one does persecution complex quite like a teenager. Except maybe a toddler.
Ok, so bottom line: he’s a toddler. Inside. He’s having an internal toddler temper tantrum, and he’s not sure how to make it stop. What’s the best way to stop a tantrum? Change the environment. Change the rules. Remove the trigger. Allow the child choices, with guidance, to determine their own behavior within physically safe boundaries. But they’ve got to learn to control these internal tantrums just like they learned to control their outward ones; that can’t be handled on their behalf.
And remember that this is probably 90% unconscious and 110% lacking in personal insight. Because that’s how teen brains work. He will be able to think much better in another 10 years, because biology. You probably can’t talk him through this one, because the defense mechanisms are in full swing protecting his ego identity. This is one he’s got to master on his own, like he mastered saying yes because he wanted the cookie instead of no because you wanted to give it to him.
*And that - rejecting your values - is what really stings here, isn’t it? I know it was for me. I took that very personally. I shouldn’t have. He did have those same values, and your son probably does too. He just shoved them down deep inside for a while there and acted against them to prove a point.
This.
I’d add that you have to start applying appropriate time horizons and consequences from a very small age, so by the time they’re high school aged, they’re aware that consequences can happen and/or extend a lot longer than whatever punishments you think up.
I mean, by the time I was 16-17, I KNEW that getting a girl pregnant was a life-changing thing in a bad way for someone who wanted to go to college and eventually on to graduate school.
The other thing you have to start early is expectations and goals. People tend to live up to, or down to the expectations put on them, provided that the expectations are reasonable and attainable. I mean, if you expect your child to be an Olympian, that may be a bit unreasonable for most, but expecting good grades, graduation and being accepted to a decent college is likely not. Of course, if your kid has a plan of some kind that doesn’t go down that path, be willing to hear it out, give good advice, and assuming it’s not idiotic, support them and set high expectations for that new path. In other words, if your kid decides he wants to be an artisan of some kind, and is thinking about apprenticeship, set expectations that he find a good master to apprentice under, or a good trade school, or whatever.
Eventually your kid will start setting expectations and goals for themselves and you can pull back.
It sounds like not a whole lot of this kind of thing has been going on with your son; his time horizon and expectations are likely not much more than a few weeks ahead, and his goals and expectations are unformed, or so vague as to be nearly so. I mean, what does he want to be doing when he’s 19? 23? 30? How does he plan to get there? What does he need to get that done?
These are questions you should probably sit down and discuss. Not in an accusatory way, as if he’s a loser for not having a firm plan for what he’ll be doing when he’s 30, but rather in a manner intended to get him thinking about it and realizing that his current trajectory is going to result in a metaphorical faceplant and likely waiting tables and eventually, if he’s lucky, managing a chain restaurant.
**AnaMen **and WhyNot, those were two incredibly insightful posts. Thank you for them.
This would be my idea as well. One question, when you were punishing him, taking away TV and phones and computers and whatnot, what did he DO all day between end of school and going to sleep? Sit in the kitchen and stare at the wall for 6 hours?
Also, I noticed he spends a lot of time on Youtube videos now, how is that possible if you take away the phone and/or computer?
Agreed. Thank you, both.
Nap. Read (he likes reading). Watch TV. Listen to music on the radio. Often I’d catch him day-dreaming, staring off into space when he should be focused on homework.
Given how little effect punishment had on his overall performance, I gave up on the idea in the interest of not being punitive just because I could be.
I wish I could take credit for it. It was another mom who pointed out to me that teen challenges are exactly like toddler challenges, only they happen inside their head. It suddenly made everything make a whole lot more sense. Both age groups are dealing with the questions of who they are separate from their parents, and how you wield that newfound power.
At the beginning of this year I let my 9-year-old do something that has affected her entire scholastic year.
I let her fail.
MrsB and I looked through her homework, made sure she knew the due dates for an assignment, but when she failed to do it we deliberately did not point it out other than asking “Have you done everything?”
When she came home she was in tears because she had received a big fat 0 with no way of fixing it, and she learned there are consequences to her own actions.
Your son is old enough to learn the same thing. It’s not enough to bribe for good behaviour. You don’t even have to punish for bad behaviour. You simply have to sit him down, tell him what his options are at age 18, and walk away.
He is not really being punished, still has radios & TV and recreational reading.
Sits in the kitchen or where he can be watched ( yeah, you can’t watch TV either) and all he gets is school books until the grades come up, not just starting doing the homework.
If he, for whatever reason does not fear physical punishment, historically knows you won’t really take it all away from him, then why on earth should he start now?
He was a great, kind, obedient, wonderful toddler… So what? You never established any control ( I’m not saying to do anything unreasonable or mean or scaring him, etc., so don’t go there, but it can be done. ) so that he would do what you asked without bribes or threats. IMO, if you have not got the teaching done by 6 years old, you never will.
All the advice up thread is good too. Just remember that trying to fix what is wrong in two years is not going to happen.
Just be aware that it could all end badly because if he does not come out of it and the real world gets him, it will spank him very hard.
It does not seem to me that you have ever thought about what you will do if he comes back at 20, has no prospects, no further education and still wants to live the way he is now.
Going to go ‘tough love’ then?
About all you can do is what has been suggested and pray that he pulls it out. Be aware that he might not. Think about that also. Now.
Good luck.
You’re wrong. I’ve thought of nothing but. Else why would I have been trying to course correct for the past 4 years.
I think it’s especially hard when you’ve never really had to knuckle down on them about their school work in the past. My kid pretty much always got decent grades (A’s and B’s), did most of his homework well without a fight, etc. Restricting video games from time to time was about all it took to get him back on track if he started to lag.
Then things changed. Only we didn’t realize it at first. Video games only on the weekend didn’t work. So then it was no video games, then it was no video games and no TV, etc. Then, eventually we were like, “What on earth is going to motivate this kid?!?”
There is much wisdom here. At about the same age, my daughter started screwing around, and I pleaded and cajoled and threatened and shamed and pretty much every carrot and stick combination you can imagine. You know what worked? When I finally looked at her and said “Well, it’s your life” and dropped the whole thing. It took about 6 months for her to get it together, but she graduated last year with an academic honors diploma, went into the workforce and will be starting a management program in the fall.
Do this. It’s actually the right thing to do.
Chiming in again, because my first post was so short.
So again, I was your son. My parents took away TV, tried having me sit at the table to do my homework, took away my (recreational) books, etc. None of it worked. Even if I did my homework, I would occasionally fail to turn it in as some others have mentioned.
Part of my problem was boredom. I was being taught the same things in History class in 11th grade that I was taught in History class in 7th grade and in 4th grade. It stupefied me that I should have to go through it all again when I remembered it the first time.
There were a few things that helped straighten me out.
- A High School teacher that I respected told me at the beginning of my first class with him “I know your pattern, and if you try to pull that bullshit of turning in all of your coursework at the end of the year, I’ll fail you.”
- I failed a class. I got As on every test I took in my History class, but turned in no homework. Not one assignment the entire semester. I told the teacher “I clearly know the material, so base my grades on my tests. I shouldn’t have to do the homework if I already know this stuff.” She disagreed with my approach and gave me an F. I had to take the class in summer school, which was a major blow to my ego.
- I went to a private school. I honestly think if I had gone to a public high school, I could have failed to graduate, but the smaller class sizes and individual attention from teachers and the school principal really helped.
Hell, man, I don’t even make my kids clean their room. It’s nothing but hassle and hurt feelings on all sides. I figure that this is THEIR space, and as long as there’s no food in there (which I let them know is because of rodents/bugs, not some control thing) it’s a healthy thing to make sure they feel secure and happy in their own space. If they need help cleaning, I’ll help, and if they live in a pile of dirty clothes, that’s fine too - the important thing is that they have control - and consequences if their favorite shirt gets ripped or their special memory gets crushed.
IMO, the smartest thing a parent can do is give their kids all sorts of freedom (and the illusion of freedom, natch) and let them fail. Developing those skills is so important, and worrying about a teenager who isn’t worrying about themselves is just a waste of time and a source of stress.
Thank you for saying so!
You know, I’m glad this worked for you, but it fills me with rage. What the hell is the point of her history class, if it isn’t to give you an opportunity to learn history? She wants to teach a work habits class, she should sign up to teach a work habits course. Call it dronery 101 or something, see how many folk take it. If you already know all the material in her class and can ace the class without doing homework, either she’s failed as a teacher by not giving you an appropriate challenge, or your school has failed you by putting you in her class.
The goal of a history class should be to learn history. Not to learn to jump through hoops. Every child has ample fucking opportunity to learn that trick in their time in school, and it’s not the teacher’s job to make students jump through pointless hoops.
Teachers like that, IMO, need to be removed from the classroom. Not because she gave you a failing grade, but because she failed to teach you.
Check your state’s rules. He might not be allowed to take the GED until he’s 18, or allowed only under certain conditions (such as be emancipated, or have permission from the local school district, or be under court order, etc.).
LHOD, I mostly agree with your basic point, but without knowing the details, I don’t know whether to agree with you about this particular case or not. It’s possible that the tests only tested simple recall of factual details, while the homework assignments included things like critical essays, research papers, etc. that would have demonstrated deeper understanding. I assume you know as well as anyone that there’s more to being educated than being able to pass a test.
I know you are very worried right now, but you should take some small comfort in that 10 years from now, no one, not you even, will give a shit about how he did in high school. It’s among the most pointless 4 years of life, yet for some reason full of pressure and hitting you right as your mind and body are all confused and making everything harder. I’m pretty sure whoever came up with the concept was a sadist.
Part time jobs are great. they give a kid some focus and some immediate reward for his effort.
It’s tough - most kids blow their first part time jobs because they don’t understand what is required - dedication, reliability etc. So he may need to try a couple.
But it’s the best way to understand how the real world operates. If you get 50% right at school - well, you pass. If you get 90% right at work, the boss rips into you about the 10%. And if you want to keep getting paid…