even sven, there’s guys out there, even local ones I’m sure, who don’t measure people like that. Dating is like buying shoes with a weird shaped foot. You gotta try on a lot of shoes before you find the one that fits comfortably. Also there’s a lot of player shoes with gimmicks, you gotta be careful of those. They’re kind of rare but you’ll know you’ve found one when that person does all the little things other guys don’t do.
I’m with you. I’ve been a fashion dropout since age 16. This is Reason #10,356 Why I Am Glad I’m Not Dating Any More. I don’t notice when Mr. Neville wears clothes he shouldn’t or forgets to brush his hair, and he returns the favor.
There are days where, as a man, I almost think that I’d like to spend some time there too–grass being greener and all that.
In terms of the OP–isn’t that one of the better things about the dope, at least? None of you know if I forgot to shave today or if I’m wearing that ratty old polo shirt because I forgot to do laundry.
Yes, yes, that may be the way it is, but you don’t have to play along. I don’t. My morning grooming process takes five minutes – no bullshit, five minutes. This morning I brushed my hair, used two bobbing pins to clip my hair behind my ears, put on lip gloss, then left. Lip gloss doesn’t even count as make up because it’s basically chap stick that stays on your lips all day, and is shiny. I don’t have time for this shit anymore. If there are people who think I’m not beautiful, fuck them.
Beware the Fashionwock, my dear
The shoes that hurt, and bras that pinch!
Beware the shaving nicks and fear
What helps you be a comely wench!
Sorry. Caffeine deficient at the moment…
Wait, so all I have to do is walk by you, say “Hey, you’re ugly!” and you’ll follow me…? 
J/k 
So you’re sick of people measuring you by a human being’s most easily accessible attribute, appearance? And it’s specifically because you won the genetic lottery and have a beautiful appearance?
Sigh. Trade with me, then decide.
For all the guys who say that men have it bad too because they are judged by their wallet, I disagree.
You know what society calls women who are attracted to a man’s bank account? They’re called gold diggers. We look down on these women as superficial, greedy, morally-bankrupt hoes. Social media extolls us to judge men based on the value as a person (“it’s what is on the inside that counts!”), but women are still expected to be pretty before anyone even worryies about their insides. This is why in romantic comedies, low wage-earning man-boys like Seth Rogan characters wind up with gorgeous women like Katherine Heigl.
Can you imagine a movie in which the roles were reversed? Picture a frumpy, goofy woman having a happily ever after ending with a rich Pierce Bronson type. The image doesn’t readily gel, does it?
That said, I’m not sick of beauty. I simply don’t conform to half the stuff that society says I should. A lot of stuff that’s supposedly makes women look hot just looks ridiculous and phony to me, so it’s no hardship to deprive myself of it. Sometimes dealing with the consequence of nonconformity sucks (a guy once told me I had sooo much wasted potential because I don’t straighten my hair or wear hot clothes…yeah, okay hon), but on the plus side, I’m not unhappy with myself. No one is forcing you to wear heels or push up bras or uncomfortably short skirts.
If you believe the only way you can look attractive is by doing these things, it’s only because you’ve bought into mass-marketed silliness. Buck the system and do your own thing.
This is sort of why I started the “Doper Crush” thread. I had a friend who once commented that someone he knew only via e-mail had a “beautiful mind.” He had never seen her, but was quite taken with her. I find it nice that I can develop an attraction to someone on this message board based soley on reading what they have posted, without having interacted with them. It is the “beautiful mind” thing, I guess.
With you? Honey, I’m 20 years ahead of you. Except that I never went in for the whole hurty shoes, makeup, and time in the mirror thing in the first place because, well, I didn’t want to do those things.
You don’t have to do that stuff. In the words of one of my former professors, the only thing anyone in this world has to do is die. Everything else is optional, although there are typically consequences to opting not to do something. In this case, the consequence is that some people won’t like you because of the way you look. The question is whether or not this is something you can live with.
For me, it was less a consequence and more an added bonus–it helps screen out the superficial wankers. If I’d been wasting time with someone who would have expected me to keep up the hair/makeup/heels thing I hated so much, I might have missed my chance with a guy who will look at me after I’ve spent three days not showering because I’ve been too busy puking, and tell me in absolute sincerity that I’m beautiful. And he might not have been as attracted to me if I were wasting my time and energy doing stuff I hated and bitching about it…one of the things he likes about me is my tendency to just puddle along doing my own little thing and telling people who don’t like it to bite me.
Which leads me to wonder just what sort of hipsters you’re hanging out with, anyway, if wearing sensible shoes and not shaving and having cats is such a rebellion. I thought sensible shoes, jeans, and a Threadless t-shirt was pretty much the standard hipster uniform, unless you’re trying to do the whole 50’s pinup look.
Wait a minute—I think you’re confusing beauty with “hotness.” They’re not the same thing at all.
“Hotness” is purely physical, is culturally conditioned, and fades with age; beauty doesn’t necessarily do so. Few guys would refer to their mothers as “hot,” but many would refer to them as beautiful.
I respect your cri de coeur - reality can really stink and the progression of time? Well, don’t get me started.
Sounds like a nice martini and footrub would do ya good. Sorry I am both married and nowhere close to China…
Everyone needs to find their own style, and part of that is the makeup and shoes and all. You will only be happy when you find the style that is you. The crap in fashion magazines is trying to sell you an image/style. If its you, do it up. If its not, don’t. Its hard to not care about what other people think (at least it is for me) and I am still not great at it, but at some point, for your own sanity, you need to stop caring about what other people think. (This does not mean abandon all societal expectations, so please continue bathing and brushing your teeth and all, but the stuff you are talking about it purely optional.)
Similar to Japan, where women go out in the snow in high heels and miniskirts. And yes, they do tumble down.
My wife has a great friend, who is a professor now in Taiwan. A wonderful person, really smart, and a great conversationalist, but homely. She said that it’s been years since someone has asked her out. 
Ok, I’ll 'fess up. I read the OP, and went over to look at the new site a bunch of us submitted our pictures to.
My reaction was "hey, she is pretty. If I had to make a snap judgment based on the picture alone, I wouldn’t have picked you for someone that worries a lot about fussing over her makeup, there’s a damn cute smile, and based more or less on the fact that you’re sitting at Everest Base Camp, someone that bothers to stay active.
You’re one of us, which automatically makes you smart, capable of coherent conversation, off-beat humor and something of a constant smirk on your face while looking at life.
Those things there spell “beauty” a boatload more to me than rosy made up cheeks and push-up bras. Beauty as in the “isn’t skin deep” kind, which after all is said and done, is what you’re left with.
*Though I admit a weakness for a woman that can walk in heels without looking like a drunken stork, they have their place, and Base Camp is not one of those.
I’d second the feeling that it’s not just the women subjected to the looks prejudice. I’ve seen woman sales people at stores, given the choice - head for the more attractive male customer. For every drooling guy at an NBA game watching the dancers, there’s a woman at a football game there watching “men in tight pants bending over” (Meet Mrs Bus Wife).
Others mentioned finding a medium that suits you - something you can work with in real life. My 'male" version of that took a while too. Granted, I’m not normally the one getting second looks, I’d give myself an average grade on my looks. Any effort I put into my body at the gym, is for my health and how it makes me feel. My job lets me dress on the casual side of business casual, so I do. Khakis, maybe jeans and a sweater or a big baggy long sleeved pullover. It’s a rare work week I’ll shave two consecutive days. The second day fuzz is fine around here.
Be you, and fuck other’s conception of how beautiful you should be. It’s so liberating (women, jump in if I’m wrong…? ) you’ll wonder what took you so long.
PS: You’re not in the Chicago area huh? Because… oh never mind…
PPS: I’ve met Haze a few times, I refuse to believe there is anything she could do not to be hot, but she’s still immeasurably cooler and nicer than most people I’ve run across.
Let yourself go. Get fat. Your life will be awesome then.
That’s been my plan all along…yeah, that’s the ticket…
I don’t do all the girly things a woman is supposed to do to be hot, but I landed a great guy anyway (it’s like he doesn’t even KNOW he’s supposed to want a woman who wears makeup and high heels all the time!) - he looks at hot chickies on the street when we’re driving around sometimes, and I don’t care - he married ME, not my clothes or my makeup (I look at the hot boyz too - nothing wrong with enjoying the scenery).
If you think your value is going down every day because you’re aging and losing your looks, you need to find another (better) way to value yourself. Find your happy medium - do what you want to do to look as good as you want to look. I wear makeup about twice a year - I’m not anti-makeup, it’s just not something I need on a daily basis. I wear comfortable shoes every day - that’s not up for negotiation for me. My point is that you can piss and moan about having to do everything to meet a beauty standard that you don’t agree with, or you can just not do it.
I think what you are really facing is the dearth of intellectuals in society. There are people who are looking for a mind to interact with, but far, far fewer than those looking for a body.
Until about age 30 I was a walking Barbie doll. I’m not kidding, heads turning, mouths gaping, 150 bathing suits to choose from gorgeous. (Occasionally rather skinny due to ballet requirements, but that was “in” at the time.)
When I started in business I had to develop the habit of “frumpy” dressing in order to get people to take me seriously. I still had to deal with all the idiots who were assessing my potential and making suggestions for a makeover. It was very difficult to get folks to look me in the eye, listen to what I had to say, judge me by my input and productivity; but I was tenacious about it.
Now I’m 40ish, definitely overweight, with baggy clothes and hair as short as I can convince the lady to cut it. I really have no interest in how I look, and I’m sure that’s obvious to everyone. I still have to deal with folks who want to give me a make over, or who become excessively excited about any new outfit in an attempt to get me to pay more attention to such things.
Here’s the kicker: my career completely took off when I gained the weight. Suddenly I am a brain to them, not a body. It’s fantastic, I love it. But I don’t like being overweight. I’m quite worried about what’s going to happen as it comes off.
I also don’t get asked out very often at all, like every two years or so. Many people assume that I am homosexual, which I’m not. At the moment I’m not interested anyway (I really enjoy spending my weekend with the Celtling, and need my Saturday nights to catch up on sleep, thanks.) But if it starts again when the weight coems off, I doubt I’ll want to then either. Who wants to go out with someone who is only interested in appearance? How boring would that be?
I guess the bottom line is different people talk to me, and people talk to me differently. And I like it better this way by a long shot. The only thing I’d change is I’d like to feel strong again, physically, and am working toward that goal.
My advice to you? Discover Crocs, and Tom’s shoes. Don’t make yourself uncomfortable just to suit what you think a bunch of strangers are thinking. And cut off your hair, long hair is a waste of time. (I gained an hour per day = 2 weeks per year! ! !). When you buy dress clothes, go for “lovely” not “sexy.” Wear clothes that are tailored to show your figure, not your skin.
And stop trying to read other people’s minds. My biggest problem when I was beautiful was people assuming I was stupid.
And what are you doing right now, in this thread, to the guys that look at you for your attractiveness? Surely you don’t think this thread is a novel idea, do you? For every person denouncing a woman as a gold digger, there’s a person calling a man a pig.
Somebody should make a movie or TV show about a homely girl that’s successful or gets the guy, or whatever. If I wrote it, it’d be based around a girl’s journal or something. I’d give the girl an uncommon first name to make her stand out, but a common last name to show that she’s “one of us”, just like you’re proposing. I got it! Bridget Jones’ Diary! What do you think? Or maybe a TV show about a really ugly girl that just tries to make it in this world via her personality. Something like…I dunno…Ugly Betty. Hell, we could start a whole advertising campaign around shucking the idea of beauty and we’ll sell, like, soap or something. Note to self: Get with the people that make Dove to pitch this idea.
I can’t believe social media has never picked up on these ideas!
Seriously, folks, here’s why beauty matters: In our day-to-day lives, we encounter 100s of people. I don’t want to have conversations with the bus driver, I want him to drive the bus. I don’t want to talk to the cashier at lunch, I want her to run the register. I don’t care how generous or funny the 50 people on the morning train are, I just want them to get out of my way so I can board and deboard. But all these people have one thing in common- I have to look at them. That’s the reason why intellect is only valued in a subclass of situations and beauty always matters.
“Beauty is as beauty does …” (from an old song, sung by Annette Funicello. [!])
And you’ve really got it nailed with the last item of your to-do list.
(My emphasis added to quote.)