I assume the unstated assertion is that men are more prone to shallowness than women in evaluating the opposite sex.
I doubt that this is true, myself. I think people everywhere are about equal in potential shallowness when it comes to the sex of their choice, though it may be expressed in different ways as conditioned by social norms.
Dunno; what’s enough to be an issue? I imagine every woman in a serious relationship hears it on a pretty regular basis. But you didn’t provide the entirety of even sven’s statement. I assume that you acknowledge the difference between the quote you provided, devoid of context, and the one that immediately precedes “because I’m sick of being measured that way.”
I also don’t agree with your characterization of the “rant,” which I think explains our different readings. I think we’re reading causality in different directions – you’re saying it was a rant about being evaluated on appearance after investing in that appearance. I read it as frustration over having to invest in one’s appearance because one is being evaluated on that appearance. I think that makes a big difference.
If somebody started a thread wherein they made clear that their problem was that they were sick of being told they were beautiful, and that was it, that would probably be deserving of criticism on the grounds that it was a very thin veneer of distress masking the vanity. In an OP where, to me at least, the context makes clear that the grievance is over the whole idea that making oneself presentable is of primary and maybe even sole significance in the world of human relations, I think it’s a very different statement – one that doesn’t require the reader to read “I’m a fox” between the lines in order for it to make sense.
What I find frustrating about the rich/beautiful dichotomy, since we’ve now veered onto that, is that:
It does have some definite “all these 50’s…” overtones. But in context with some of the OPs other recent threads, it makes sense.
If you don’t want to deal with beauty, do not come to Tokyo. I’ve lived in west LA, but that does not even compare. Most of the women here - regardless of their actual age - look like they are in their 20’s, impossibly thin, have perfect porcelain skin, and are dressed to the nines 24/7. Even the men look like they spend more time on themselves than the women in LA.
But yes, I feel you.
You got it. This isn’t even about me. I’ve got my own personal issues with my average-okay looks and the insanely beauty-centric culture around me, but that is neither here nor there. It’s Tiger Woods’ wife, the beautiful woman that make people sad, “Knocked up”, pick-up artists, etc. that is making me wish we’d all give up on the whole thing and start looking at women as full-on human beings.
I just stopped caring, and it’s working pretty well. I still shave and try to present myself reasonably well, but nothing fancy and little effort day to day, and I don’t waste time thinking about my (depreciating) beauty value or anyone else’s. I’m on my 3rd cat.
We’re lucky if we get to be old and ugly before we die. I hope I age better than some, I suppose. I’ve deliberately stopped noticing if people are looking at me or not, and I avoid unnecessary conversation with men. Things are less complicated.
I’m sure that the fact that I am already ‘settled down’ and have been for 5 years makes this useless for single people.
Sure, they want good looks and a good personality/compatible values. It’s hard to find!
This conversation is all over the place, so here’s my response to no one in particular to some of what I’ve read. When I read the thread title and the OP, I did not read it as “I am sick of being beautiful.” I read “I am sick of the requirement of beauty.” If it’s worth anything, I don’t give my own personal beauty or requirement thereof much thought either way, as it is not something that really comes up. I just do whatever the hell I want, wear what is comfortable, and don’t bother with loads of make up and hair tricks, because I don’t feel like it. I’m still breathing, so I reckon this is working out pretty well for me.
I do believe there is an absurd beauty requirement of women, but it’s pretty easy to ignore. Men are supposed to be strong, women are supposed to be pretty. So what? I don’t feel like being pretty, and won’t bother with asinine efforts to be pretty, so sod off, societal expectations. There may be people who are dismissive of me because of that, but I don’t notice them and/or don’t care. If you shrug off what you’re supposed to do, and do what you want to do, you will find the people who gravitate toward you are the people who like whatever it is you want to do. That works itself out pretty nicely, don’t it?
So stop feeding the cycle, if you’re so sick of it. If this sort of thing is so very deplorable and degrading and sickens you, stop treating people who do it as though their opinions matter. When you spend time, money, and energy meeting the expectations of douchebags, you validate those expectations, tacitly telling them that this is indeed a reasonable and valid way to treat people. If you don’t meet those expectations, the douchebags won’t like you. But that’s perfectly fine, because their opinions don’t matter. Because they’re douchebags.
Listen to us. In addition to being beautiful, we are wise.
That’s right. I quote my own self. Wanna fight about it?
Hollywood is a funny planet where Renee Zellwegger, America Ferrera, and Janeane Garofalo are considered homely, or fat, or plain or whatever.
America Ferrera is SO beautiful, and I am far from the only one who thinks so. She’s been featured in many the fashion magazine. Many peoples’ frustrations with beauty lie in the fact that they think the definition is so narrow. And maybe it is, a bit. But not so narrow as most people think.
Some of us really like to do it. We like to do it because it’s fun for us. It’s all about making the inside match the outside for me, and about expression. BUT just because I do it and it’s fun doesn’t mean I like the fact that so many people boil down their judgments to that quality only. Can’t we find a balance?
‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty,’ - that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. - Keats
I’ve never mentioned this to anyone because I kind of felt embarrassed about it - but I have no idea what this famous quote means. It seems to be placing an awfully high value on beauty, and I always thought that was incredibly shallow of the old boy. Can anyone explain?
I came to this conclusion gradually during my 30s. I looked around me and saw most* of the conventionally attractive women I know struggling in unhappy relationships with “douchebags” who had chosen them mainly for their looks and didn’t appreciate their more important qualities.
I took stock and noted that none of my former boyfriends nor the man I settled down with were douchebags. And if I had remained single it would have been a far better plight than the prospect of life with one of those jerks. So even if it is difficult to be unattractive in a society that puts such an emphasis on female beauty, it can pay off in the end.
*Not to say you can’t be beautiful and make better choices than these friends did - that’s why I said “most”.
I don’t judge women by their appearances, I judge their appearances by their appearances. A woman’s appearance is one of the most important factors in my decision to either ask her out or not.
Women turn down men because they don’t have high social status. This is is not any better (or worse) than being uninterested in a woman because she isn’t very pretty.
Yawn.
For me and for most female friends social status was not a consideration. Intelligence, personal hygiene and sense of humour take precedence.
Really? What is the average level of attractiveness of you and your female friends and what is the average of their husbands’ or boyfriends’ income?
Edit: I know you can’t quantify this and actually give me this information. The point of my question is just to make you really think about how you and your group of friends actually behave.
It is worse, though, or at very least, not at all equivalent. As I mentioned above, not only is it a lot easier to attain more wealth, higher social status, etc. than it is to become more beautiful, it’s also a lot more socially acceptable to pursue wealth than to pursue beauty.
If you say, “My goal is to become more wealthy”, there are of course some people who will call you shallow, especially if you’re adamant about it, but for the most part, it’s considered a positive and admirable goal. Really, it’s more or less what people are *supposed *to do.
But if you say, “My goal is to become more beautiful”, you’ll be laughed at, called superficial, vapid, and vain, and told you should be concerned with higher things. At best, you’ll get, “Well, whatever floats your boat.” Beauty is not something one attains; you’re supposed to just have it, and not give it another thought.
And to be clear, I agree - trying to become more beautiful is a stupid and likely fruitless goal. I’m just saying that while it does indeed suck that both men and women are judged on “external” qualities, it sucks more for women, since they’re judged on a quality that can’t and/or shouldn’t be improved.
There’s a Socratic dialog by a Zen Master that, paraphrased, goes:
“Master, must we always tell the truth?”
“Yes, being truthful is of paramount importance.”
“But what if the truth is hurtful or causes pain?”
“Then it’s not truth.”
The Keats line always seemed to be saying that if something is true (authentic, honest, etc), it’s beautiful regardless of the specific aesthetics surrounding the truth. This is why your grandmother is pretty even if she’s 80, to put it in a falsely universal way.
I don’t think this holds true as much as you seem to be implying that it does. I have a relatively high salary and I dress and drive a car that indicate it (apparently, I dress well enough that the sales guy at the Volkswagen/Volvo/Audi dealer I bought my last car at thought I was in the market for a loaded A4/A6 rather than the Jetta I wanted. =P) For that matter, subjectively (that is, asking friends and acquaintances) I’m considered to be smart and funny. Yet it was (and still is) like pulling teeth to get women to pay attention to me much of the time. Which maybe doesn’t seem nearly as strange when I say I also have a paunch, an off-center nose, and a beard that sometimes sees two-three days between trimming and shaving my neck.
I think in retrospect that the only problem I have with the op is the assumption that only women are judged on “beauty” (aka, superficial attractiveness). We all are. Granting that having to hit the gym to keep the paunch from catching up while you’re sitting at a swivel chair for your salary isn’t the SAME as high heels and bras and makeup, it’s still a pain and it’s still a drain on time and energy. I spend as much time on my hair in the morning as my wife these days, solely because she likes my looks better when I do, etc. I’m not necessarily going to say it bothers me, because it doesn’t, but I am going to point it out.