I'm So Glad I Found God and I Pray Someday You Will Too

The truth is is that I do believe God works in every facet of my life even down to the small point of a post on the SDMB.

The “praying for an internet post” is not self-absorbed IMO. I did that because I did not want “my way” to get in the way of “his way”, which I obviously messed that up pretty good but I already explained that.

I live my life minute by minute and I’ve spent years trying to learn how to walk with God and let him guide me. It may seem trivial to you or just coincidence, but if I pray for something I have faith enough that whatever way it goes (even when I screw it up) that he’s got an ultimate plan and in the end he knows what to do.

So yes, I pray for everything great and small. God can do everything great and small (in my eyes). God doesn’t have to stop what he’s doing for me or for anyone else, he’s always there and attentive at all times.

Lots of people from both sides have said that this thread was a mistake, and you’ve admitted it yourself. In the Grand Scheme (no, there isn’t a Grand Scheme; it’s an expression that means “from a larger perspective”), however, it’s a small thing. This thread will disappear in a few days, and will eventually be forgotten.

And I can’t say that you aren’t taking responsibility for it. You are, now that it’s done. But it’s interesting to me that this illustrates how a non-theist can sometimes be a more morally responsible person than a theist. You seem to have thought about starting this thread up to a point, but then for the final decision, you left it up to God’s guidance. In my world, where there is no God, I have to make the final decision, and take responsibility for it. I can’t think something through 90%, and then let God take the final 10%. I have to make all of the decision myself. I can’t point a gun at someone and say, “God, if it’s not your will that I kill this person, stop my hand, or turn the bullet, or make the gun misfire.” It’s all on me. I believe that human beings are smart enough to make such decisions for themselves, without asking for God’s guidance. It isn’t always easy, but relying on such a nebulous source for advice doesn’t make it easier to do right.

You aren’t blaming God for the mistake, but if you hadn’t been leaning on him for guidance in the first place, it seems likely to me that you wouldn’t have made the mistake. You would have taken all the responsibility for it before posting. And with that responsibility, you might have refrained. Without God, one is forced to admit that there is no “his way.” It’s all “your way.”

Man, with all the crap in my life right now, I thought it was cute, maybe even slightly heartfelt. But, now that you have been rebuked by practially everyone - sorry, I’m a follower - YOU *&^%$)#@. Just kidding. Forget about it, everyone else will.

I made the final decision to post and I took responsibility for it. This thread is nowhere near killing someone and I don’t think I would compare it to that.

It isn’t God’s guidance that I was looking for in posting the thread, it was his will. Obviously he allows things to go wrong in this world for the reasons that are his own, but that doesn’t mean that he’s guiding anyone to do those things. “I” decided to post it no matter what he thought about it, nor did I care at the time. I see it as it being his way of letting me learn a lesson. He allowed some of you to be offended but “I” was the one who did the offending and I take full responsibility.

I don’t know about that but like you said, it’s done and over with and will soon be forgotten, at least by all of you.

I’m so glad I found reason and I hope someday you will too.:wink:

I was not comparing the potential harm done by the two acts; I was comparing the form of your decision-making:

The content is different; the form is the same. The acceptance and deflection of responsibility are the same. I don’t claim that you would apply the same form of decision-making if there were a gun in your hand, but I also don’t doubt that some do. The point is that if we think about things more, and rely on God less, we might make better decisions.

**

And why would you seek his will, if not for guidance?

I wasn’t offended, just disappointed to be reminded that this type of thinking still exists. And again, I see that you are taking full responsibility now, but my point is that you didn’t take enough responsibility then. I’m ready to stop beating this dead horse, but I do believe there are more lessons to be learned here than you realize.

If you wouldn’t mind beating that old horse once more could you tell me what lessons you’re talking about? I really would like to hear.

The lesson I believe you’ve learned is not to announce your intentions to pray for the salvation of us heathens.

The more important lesson, I think, is that relying on supernatural influences leads to bad decisions, and that if we are to be ethical creatures, we have to make our own decisions about what is good and bad. We have to rely on reason and compassion and respect, not on the will of God. In light of all the “mysterious ways” in which this God acts, if he exists, we don’t have a clue what his will is. We have to figure out right and wrong for ourselves.

I agree we don’t have a clue what God’s will is for our personal lives. I agree we have to make our own decisions on right and wrong. I agree reason, compassion and respect are very important things we need as human beings.

I don’t agree with not relying on the will of God for my life. Not yours or anyone else’s here, but mine. I might spend the rest of my earthly life seeking the will of God and not find it, but whether I decide if I’ve found it or am supposed to find it, does not mean he is not working in my life for the good of his will. I am not special nor do I think I’m high and mighty because someday God may or may not use me for his greater good, I only humbly offer myself as a servant and pray in my own heart that I can be the best I can possibly be as the sinful human I am.

That being said I think I have made the decision to leave this forum for awhile and get back to doing what I do best. That, obviously is not debating on whether God is good or evil or if he exists.

dreamer said:

IMO, because:

sounds a lot like putting God to the test,

and, because it really starts getting into the mess of free will/ divine omniscience. If God allowed your email to go through, it would mean that he approved of it; since it didn’t, he didn’t. Taken to its logical conclusion, that argument presupposes that something cannot happen without God ‘allowing’ it. Sin is allowed by God…but if God then knows we will sin, and allows it (omniscient, remember), then it would seem he is partly to blame. If I recall my fundy days, the whole point of free will was to let us the power of choice, to go with or against God, or our own volition…but if God can decide to veto our actions at the last moment, do we have free will? And does that mean that all actions that do get through are ‘approved’?

This is a very simplified description of the 16th C scientia media debate…here’s a link with a good summary of the positions of two Catholic philosophers (Molina and Banyez):
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04238a.htm

As a recreational philosopher, I don’t claim to understand the intricacies of human free will/ moral responsibility/ divine omnipotence/ omniscience…my point is, though, that should you choose to invoke such concepts to defend your behavior, you should understand the implications.

Dreamer, honey, don’t you think you’re being just a tad–well, unfortunately, the only word that comes to mind is “arrogant”, but that’s not really the word I want. What I mean is, aren’t you speaking a little bit too soon, in deciding that this thread was somehow a failure? You stated your position, so big deal, now everybody knows where you stand. That’s a bad thing? Not necessarily. And who are you to say that God can’t work through seeming “failure”? Look at Peter–a failure. Look at David–screwed up. Eh?

And anyway…

What did you expect to happen? That hordes of Dopers would suddenly get saved and post, “Thank you for opening my eyes to Jesus”? If that was what you expected to happen, then yeah, I guess it’s a failure.

But look, honey, all this thread was, it was just a conversation. I dunno how much time you spend on message boards in general, and on the SDMB in particular, but the important thing is, every thread is what amounts to a simple conversation–not a life-changing experience, not a voice-from-out-the-burning-bush epiphany. Just a few minutes of idle chitchat. Sometimes it’s chitchat about religion, sometimes it’s chitchat about Britney Spears. That’s the way message boards work.

So big deal, you stopped by and had a conversation with a few people on the SDMB about your religion, and you didn’t convert anybody, and some of them were rude, and some of them actually made fun of you, but that’s okay. You’re telling me you never witnessed to anybody before and had them make fun of you, and had to break off the conversation and go about your business without actually converting him? Happens all the time in the real world, sweetie. If you’re expecting to go even 1 for 20 in your real-life witnessing, then you’re just being unrealistic. You can go on witnessing for years without actually converting anybody, or even getting a fair hearing.

But the important thing is that when someone tunes you out while you’re trying to witness to him, that you don’t get all huffy and say, “Oh, well, all right then, I’ll go away now.”

Well, do you?

Anyway, trying to witness on a message board is very different from face-to-face witnessing because there’s no personal element, and people here feel much freer to be rude and confrontational than they would if they knew you IRL.

Witnessing here in GD has even less success than real life witnessing. Other people before you have tried, and failed, most notably FriendofGod. Pay close attention to Tucker’s response to his “farewell”. Point taken? :wink:

Also, I dunno how you were taught to do witnessing, but I was taught that you choose your quarry carefully, so to speak. That is, you decide who you’re going to witness to, and you pray for that specific person for a while before you actually broach the subject. This gives the Holy Spirit time to work. But here, obviously, you couldn’t do that, because there are hundreds of people here, and they’re all totally anonymous.

So if there’s a lesson to learn here, it’s that you just went about your witnessing wrong, is all. You jumped in with both feet, went off half-cocked, whatever, and–surprise, surprise!–it didn’t work. So what else is new? [shrug]

But, anyway, I hope you’ll knock off the “I guess I’ll go eat worms” stuff and stick around. There are other things to talk about here besides Christianity, you know. Not every subject has to have a religous “take” on it. We all have a good time shooting the breeze about all kinds of secular subjects, and I for one never feel obliged to weigh in with a “well, the Bible says…” on each and every thread. I solve the problem of “debating whether God is good or evil” by simply staying out of those threads. I don’t see that God commands me to take up the cudgels every time some atheist says Bad Stuff about Him. He’s a big boy, He can take care of Himself, been doing it for a lonnnng time now. :smiley:

And while at first an Internet message board may have seemed like a heaven-sent opportunity for mass witnessing, now you know that when the face-to-face element is missing, it’s doomed to failure.

Relax, enjoy yourself, let go of the “religion” stuff. People here can be really very nice, as long as you’re not preachin’ at 'em all the time. Nobody here hates you, I guarantee it. The people who were rude don’t hate you, they’re just giving you a sort of medium-sized " :rolleyes: " and getting on with their lives. They’ve seen lots of this “religious fanatic” stuff before in GD, and they know they’ll see it again. They’re used to it. They reserve their true annoyance for those who post merely out of bigotry and ignorance, and who waste their time, especially with the slow server, with poorly thought-out, illogical, stupid OPs. I don’t think anybody would say this thread was a waste of time, because if they had, they’d have said so. Loudly. And you’d have had a Pit thread started in your honor.

Which you haven’t. So don’t think you’re SDMB Public Enemy #1–don’t flatter yourself. You have to be a lot more annoying than this to get a Pit thread. :smiley:

No DDG, of course not. Thanks for your post, I know all those things you say are true. The reason I said I should leave this forum for “awhile” is for my sake. I do get too involved on a personal level and for me I’ve been spending way too much time worrying about it. I know this is just a message board and I meant to add to the last line of my last post that I know nobody really gives a crap about what I say. I just need to step away and see it from a different perspective so I can stop being so personal and letting things like this get to me. I didn’t say the thread was a failure, just that it was a mistake on my part.

If that were true I would of left GD many moons ago. I’ve done my fair share of witnessing and have experienced way worse than what’s happened here. I’ve never converted anyone, I don’t think that’s what anyone should be focused on. I know this is just a conversation and will soon be "Dust in the Wind"™ and hopefully I will soon forget it as well.

So yes, I’ll get on with my life now too. God knows I’ve got lots of praying to do these days :smiley:

DDG, well put. Thank you.

Dreamer, keep in mind that the voices you hear are not the only people who hear you. For instance, I don’t say much, but I pay close, close attention to those who seem to have some understanding of God and religion. Eventually, I’ll have some questions, and this is probably the place I’ll come for answers…but it will take time, because I just don’t feel safe in that way yet.
I’ve never witnessed, but I spent many years teaching kids who had lots of problems, and I continually reminded myself: You never know what effect your words and actions may have, especially on the people who seem most unaffected. Polycarp is a very good example of someone I pay very close attention to, and his behavior would be a great model for you to study.
Best,
karol

Awww . . . Well, I think it’s cute. Kinda like one of my cats bringing me chewed-up mouse bits. It’s not something I would ever want or need, but the cat (and Dreamer) mean well.

To the atheists who refuse prayer on their behalf: why should you care? Unless of course you’re caring simply that dreamer is wasting his/her time?

To the Christians (WRT God’s perceived interference in the posting process):at what point should religious fervour be interpreted as delusional?

Duck Duck Goose is pretty wise for a whacked-out fundie. :smiley: Take to heart what she posted, dreamer. Some of the most respected posters on this board are committed Christians, including the esteemed Ms. Goose herself. But this is also a place where a whole lot of different people with widely varying political, philosophical, and religious beliefs come to voice their strongly-held beliefs. It’s fine to challenge those beliefs; heck, that’s what GD is all about. Nevertheless, you have to give those other posters the same respect that you expect them to give to you, or everything quickly degenerates into a pissing match–witness some of the more vitriolic responses to your OP in this thread.

So take a deep breath and keep posting!

No wonder the world is such a mess!!

God simply does not have the time to look after his creation.
He must be awfully busy with you [B/] dreamer**, constantly telling you to turn this way or that, when to pick up your foot, giving you signs whether to buy yoghurt or a mars bar.

Seriously, you need to snap out of it.
God isn’t watching every little move you make or sending you signs all the time. The decisions you make in daily life are [I/] yours*. Quite a bit of responsibility eh?
Learn to live your own life.

I’ve always been curious about the whole “if it be your will”, “use me as your vessel” kind of mindset. If God is omnipotent, his will is going to be done, no matter what your prayers ask of him. If he’s omnipotent, I’ll be just as good a vessel for him when he needs one; willingness on my part is going to be irrelevant.

Prayer in and of itself has always seemed like the ultimate in hubris to me; if God has a master plan, why should he change it by request? It seems faith means that you trust God to make the right decision, every time; surely your beseechments, pleas, and advice can’t sway the path that he’s decided is right.

But please, pray anyway. Just don’t frighten the horses.

Uhmm, folks, I’ve been known to pray before I post, especially on matters of religion. Actually, I’m praying now for the right words to express what I believe clearly. Whether that prayer is answered or not is up to what you decide. To this Christian, God is unlimited, boundless, all powerful. Therefore the energy required to stop or assist a post in a trivial thread on a trivial board (looking at things from a cosmic level) is even more trivial because it comes from an infinite source. This, by the way, is a view shared by some Wiccan friends of mine, so I suspect it’s not unique to Christianity.

Also, praying is not opposed to or separate from taking responsibility for one’s actions. If I’m praying for the words to use in this post, I’m also responsible for choosing which ones to use, how to arrange them, and to go back and fix any typoes which creep in. It’s like the old joke about the man who kept praying to God to let him win the lottery. He kept it up until one day he heard a deep voice say “Give me a break. At least buy a ticket!” I’m praying for a new job. I’m also sending out resumes. If I don’t do the latter, I don’t expect God to do the former.

By the way, dreamer, you said

Then once again, I’m nobody. Nice to meet you. Actually, I seem to have a lot of company around here.

CJ

Hmm, just curious.
What do you do when you’ve just finished a new resume?
Do you look at it and think: " Cool, this one looks good, it might just get me the job." or " Cool, I finally have something for God to work with."?