dreamer, I’m glad youre here, I don’t feel like such a minority now.
BTW, why do I keep picturing you typing with gorillas all around you?
There’s a lesson to be learned in this thread – actually, several. First, let me endorse the wise words of two wise women: Mrs. Goose (why do I keep imagining she has a dog named Grimm? ;)) and cjhoworth. Then:
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Dreamer, you are unique in this board in that, being a relatively conservative Christian, you are prepared to stand the heat and adopt the behavior Paul calls for in Philippians in order to attempt to witness in behalf of Christ.
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However, it is not your job to convert people; that is the task of the Holy Spirit, and only He (She? in the Hebrew and Greek, the words we translate as Holy Spirit are feminine) is wise enough to know the right words at the right time and place to effect a conversion. Your job is to show Christ by word and deed to your fellow posters – and IMHO the second half of that is more important than the first. I think you’ve seen this.
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However, please note that while people’s reactions ranged from pleased to amused to scoffing, nobody flamed you for trying. This is a far cry from the situation 30 months ago, and longtimers among us realize this. Your sincerity and caring nature do show through, and even those who feel that your prayers and witness are pointless because there is no God are in fact touched by what you’re doing.
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You believe yourself to have been warned by God that it was a mistake, but one He nonetheless allowed you to make. In my experience, when we tend to go against His counsel, He usually has a lesson in store for us. What have you learned from this thread?
Hi dreamer –
Agnostic checking in. I just wanted to let you know that I’m not offended by the idea that you may be praying for me, and though I agree that the OP was rather arrogant in effect, I am impressed with the way you have dealt with it.
I’ll tell you what – next time I pray, I will pray for you if you like. Of course, hell might have frozen over by then, but who knows? 
Latros, you asked, “What do you do when you’ve just finished a new resume?” Actually, what I think is “I hope this is good enough,” although it’s getting closer to " Cool, this one looks good, it might just get me the job." I have faith; I also have insecurities. I think that means I’m human.
CJ
Did you look between the cushions?
quote:
I know nobody really gives a crap about what I say.
OK, I’m sorry. I take that comment back. Obviously I care about what you guys say and I know some of you care as well.
Forgive me?
OK, I just got home from working a 12 hour day and I just can’t seem to get what you’re trying to say here.
I’m looking around the room here and I really don’t see any live animals anywhere!
Polycarp, thank you for your wisdom and sincerity. I am thinking on your question and want to let it sink in for awhile as to make sure I really know exactly what I have learned so I can grow from it.
I really do appreciate the things some of you have said. I feel as if I’ve had some kind of therapy these last few days and the words I have read here have opened my eyes and heart to quite a few things. It is truly my only goal to “show Christ by word and deed to your fellow posters” as Polycarp said. I hope I can learn to do that better and I thank you all for taking the time out to be examples of that. I’m always praying for wisdom and I believe this board has brought me much thus far.
Thanks again
dreamer, you have a good set of brains and an open attitude. You show a remarkable willingness to learn. So why don’t you, instead spending time on praying for wisdom, go down to the library and read some books?
Wisdom usually comes with knowledge, expand your knowledge.
Cj
I was interested in the mindset behind praying.
I feel that for a lot of people it is a form of superstition.
Something to help luck along a little. Not just a private communication with their God.
After they’ve posted their resumes (or any other important situation), non-believers usually have nothing they can do about the process but sit back and hope for the best. If you’re superstitious you might want to perform some sort of ritual that seemed to have worked the last time. Like " must put keys on left corner of table and wear my white socks."
It’s a way not to feel so helpless and gives you the idea that you can still have an active part in the unseen processes.
It is however a mindset that can easily turn obsessive, you really get to rely on the rituals (or prayers) for things to work. In a way you are deferring your own responsibilities to a higher power.
I was afraid this might be the case with dreamer, hence my rather crude remark to snap out of it and take control of her own life.
In all honesty, how often are your prayers just ‘to help things along a little.’ ?
You are very welcome to pray for me anytime you want. I’m assuming you are a fellow believer who’s accepted Christ as your Saviour? If I’m mistake, my apologies.
It’s true that God loves everyone and desires that all be saved. He’s provided the way through Christ. Not all will come. We have free will to accept His sacrifice for us or not.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
dreamer: I know the feeling. One of the most important things that the SDMB taught me was that the religious were not deluded, blind, or foolish. Wrong in my opinion, yes, but still mostly smart people.
Stick around. You’ll like it here.
dreamer,
I’ve re-read my post and decided it was pretty harsh (although it was in the Pit at the time). I’m glad you’ve decided against praying for me to find God. I am very happy with my beliefs as they are, and I’m glad you’re happy with yours.
For what it’s worth, although I don’t believe in the Christian God/Jesus, I do believe in prayer/meditation. When something bad is going on with a friend of mine, I pray (so to speak) for them and ask that they have the strength to get through their hard time. I am never offended when my Christian friends pray for me, and they do. But anyone would told me they were praying for me to find their God would earn my ire, because it gives the impression that my beliefs are wrong, and to me they are most certainly not.
Thanks for growing with us. Welcome.
Aw, dang! This is the closest I’ve come to being pitted (albeit very roundaboutedly), and I don’t even get in on the action until the author of the obliviated OP has apologized!
Dreamer, I can tell you that while I don’t personally believe that praying for me has any effect, it does kinda creep me out – I don’t like the idea of people trying to work what seems like mojo on me from a distance. I’m not really sure why. It just makes me feel vaguely like I’m being stalked.
In fact, a few years ago, my brother and I were living together. After we found out that one of our neighbors had asked all the other neighbors to pray for us (I’d politely told him that we’re not Christians when he came witnessing), my brother set up wards around the house to fend off prayers. Probably jars full of fennel and salt, that kind of thing.
Anyway, I accept your apology for both the arrogance of the “You know I’m right!” post and for the bullyish nature of the “I’m gonna pray for you whether you like it or not, and you can’t stop me!” post. FWIW, as an atheist, these are two of the things that most turn me off of Christianity. The things that most impress me about Christianity are seeing people doing real stuff out of a desire to express Jesus’ love.
Real stuff = helping build schools in poor countries. Donating huge amounts of money, not to their church’s building funds, but to medical nonprofits. Engaging in political activism, not to keep “under God” in the Pledge, but to protect the dignity of the downtrodden.
The more I see Christians doing stuff like that, the kinder I feel toward the religion as a whole. The more I see Christians snottily announcing their prayers for me, the meaner I feel toward the religion as a whole.
As I stated in my post in the other thread, I hope that I can help some Christians see how annoying some of their tactics can be to nonChristians.
Daniel
PS Miller, I get what you’re trying to say with your analogy comparing nonbelief with deafness. But try another one on for size.
When I was in high school and college, I had friends who dropped a lot of acid. A lot. And they believed that it opened doorways of perception, allowed them to see the world for what it truly was. And they told me this a lot, and tried to persuade me that if I’d only drop acid, I could see the world’s true nature as well.
I never did. And those folks remind me a lot of witnessing Christians.
Getting back to your question Polycarp “What did you learn from this thread?”. First off let me say I read that old thread that Duck Duck Goose linked to posted by FriendofGod. I see myself a little in that thread and how some of the things said mirror things I would have said too.
Before I go into what I myself have learned, I feel I must say that when I first became a “doper™” and had my first few religious threads in GD, it really was a whole new experience for me to talk to people with so many other religious views. I have friends who are atheists, agnostics, wiccans, etc., but the type of discussions that go on here far outweigh any depth of the discussions I’ve ever had with any of my personal friends. I honestly had no idea that quoting bible scripture and standing behind those scriptures would be so offensive and condemning to some people. I was really in awe at what I was reading. I didn’t know how to respond, react, feel, or understand, basically I had no idea what the heck I was getting into. I thought I had to answer every question and accusation thrown at me and I really felt overwhelmed that each time I posted something it was ripped apart and thrown back at me in pieces with questions attached to each one. I felt at the time that I had to somehow “stick up for God” and defend his word and I had a burden on my heart to do just that.
Well, now that it’s been 9 months since my SDMB introduction, I think I’ve had some sort of “spiritual awakening”, if I could call it that. I am still the same Christian I was when I came here and I still love the Lord thy God with all my heart and soul, but I think my thoughts and ideals on how to treat and talk to others has seriously changed. One of the things that touched me the most in that thread from FriendofGod was posted by bungie_us in which he/she said -
The very next post was from you Polycarp in which you said -
So first let me thank you Polycarp and Duck Duck Goose and all the other dopers that have been an example to me, and let me say that I am now going to **“focus on the grace.” ** I’m also going to make that my new sig so I can be reminded each and every time I post is that the same amount of love I have for God is to be given to each and every person I encounter in this life with no judgement or condemnation, but with endless mercy and grace. I may stumble and fall, but I will do my best to take what I have learned here and share it with others as you have shared it with me.
Oops…forgot to add this
Love you, dear. Another quote for you, not Scriptural but from the one preserved letter by my patron saint (and board namesake), who was martyred for his faith at age 86 (or at 101, having been converted at age 15 and been a Christian for 86 years – what he said isn’t clear):
“He who has love is far from all sin.” (Polycarp 3:3)
Theres lots about this in 1 John also.
MY Bible doesn’t have the Polycarp book.
hmmmmm
The King Polycarp Version?
Vanilla,
He said not scriptural, but from a letter written by St. Polycarp.
Tris