In this thread, Dreamer made a few remarks that I find highly irritating:
I asked, in reference to demons, “How can something that doesn’t exist possibly influence me?” and your response was:
I find your last two sentences rather snide, but the crux of the matter is that you are stating something as a fact and saying that fact can hurt me, when it isn’t a fact. Can the Invisible Pink Unicorn hurt you? I think you would say ‘no’ and your reason for saying that is that you don’t believe in her existence.
You asked gobear:
It’s called the search for knowledge. At least some of us have read the Bible and we can discuss JudeoChristianity from a point of knowing what the Bible says. Your ignorance of the story of Job and the role of Satan under God indicates that you haven’t studied the Bible. Why follow a religion when you can’t be bothered to study its main text?
And this (bolding mine):
Do you have a cite for this? I think most people, religious or not, know that unsafe sex is dangerous. Or do you mean something else by “promiscuous sex”, and if so, what?
I think what gets to me most of all, though, is the number of fundamentalists and born-again Christians who want to tell others that their theology is right when they haven’t studied or can’t comprehend their own Bible. (Now, my great-grandfather, like most Russian peasants, was illiterate and I give the illiterate a lot of slack in this matter. But you’re clearly not.) I know that there are a great many Bible study groups available so there is no excuse for a Christian not to know their Bible even if their reading comprehension is below par.
Squish, as you probably remember, I was heavily involved in the thread from which this thread got its inspiration. As I tried to say there, you’re NOT going to change your mind. I know you don’t mean this thread in any way as an insult - but that’s the way it will probably be taken. Dreamer is still in Sunday school - so what? She’s happy that way. So long as she doesn’t try to change my way of life, let her stay there!
Then again, I DO understand how many Christian fundies DO try to change everyone else’s way of life. If you don’t like it and I’m not hurting you - leave it alone! Right? If you don’t like rap music, don’t listen to it and keep your kids from listening to it. If you don’t like certain books, don’t read them. However, one group’s fear shouldn’t keep the rest of the world in the dark.
There’s always a bright side. For instance, she doesn’t seem to use smilies as punctuation between every sentence anymore. Pretty significant improvement there.
People exercise choice in becoming religious fundamentalist. Black people, gay people, and Jews do not. Judging a person by the choices they have made is acceptable behavior. That doesn’t mean one should stereotype any group outright, of course. That would be silly. Still, your extrapolation of Squish’s thread title to snidely accuse him of biggotry is invalid and obnoxious.
friedo, you’ve missed the boat. The issue is attributing to all members of a group the actions of some, as you seem to acknowledge. Whether choice was involved in joining the group in the first place is therefore irrelevent.
IOW, if the wrong involved is attributing to innocent people bad things that do not apply to them, it does not make sense to say, in effect, “well, who asked them to join that group to begin with”. They are allowed to join any group that they want - all that is needed is to judge people on their own actions, not by what group they happen to be members of. Too much to ask?
OK, then: “Dreamer and certain other fundamentalists.” Sorry for the generalization.
Jarbabyj, I know you’re not all like that. It’s just that I’ve run into many like Dreamer who argue for their religion without knowing enough about it.
For instance, “Satan is out to destroy the world.” He is? Since when? Where does it say that in the Bible?
JArbaby-hi! I am a fundamentalist, I suppose.
Meaning I believe the Bible is God’s only word, that He really did create the earth in 6 days, etc.
However, I’ve never told anyone in real life thesethings.
I tell people I’m a christian. If they ask me anything, I suppose I would explain my views, but I don’t discuss it unasked.
Also, unlike my fellow fundies IRL, I am to the left politically, and separate my politics from my beliefs.
All the chrsitians I know IRL are republicans! (gak! the horror!)
So, in other words, I wouldn’t ban any book, even the SB, heck, I’d even consdier letting my son watch Pink Flamingos’ (he’s expressed an interest after I told him of the final scene)LOL
AH well, we are all so different.
Except Libertarian, he’s just like everyone! (ha ha)
I’m sort of at a loss for words here. I’m not sure if defending myself as I have tried so many times before would do any good here, or if I should just take the WV_Woman approach. I would rather not do the latter but I think I’ve said enough times what my beliefs are. I don’t tell anyone else they are wrong. I don’t tell anyone else they are ignorant. All I’ve said all along is that the truth to me **is the truth to me. Yes, I believe demons are real and can hurt you, but so what? It doesn’t have any effect on your life since you don’t believe it, so what do you care if I believe it? Would it be better if I sat here as some of you do and tell you that Yes, I think you are wrong and most of you most definately are going to Hell? I mean, that would sure make for more exciting debates.
I come to these boards because I like it here and I enjoy the debates and getting to know people here. I share my views because I feel they are a part of the world as well as any of your views, and that I have a right to share. I can’t think of one time that I’ve said something in a religious GD thread and not been jumped on to defend, explain, practically give my life story, just because I said one “fundie” comment. I’m not complaining about that, but when I’m told that I’m “ignorant”, what I believe is a “figment of the imagination”, that “No grown, rational person has any business believing in the supernatural”, I’m “still in Sunday school”, and “making people look bad,” I’m pretty much to the point of thinking that I shouldn’t even bother speaking my mind here anymore. I could just stay out of GD and have a nice, relaxing SD life in other forums.
So, go ahead, bitch at me all you want. Tell me I’m wrong and ignorant and not “coherent enough to carry on a decent conversation”. Tell me all the things you wish you could say to all the other fundies you think are nuts. As long as you know that I will never change my mind about the truth which sets me free and I most likely will not be able to refrain from posting my thoughts in GD either. Even if that’s what you’d wish.
And Drastic, I’m adding these just for you :D, :rolleyes:
Personally, I think “Satan” only has power over you if you let him.
By saying, “He doesn’t exist,” it’s pretty much guarantees he has no power.
It’s kind of like Eleanor Roosevelt saying, “Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission,” or something along those lines. If you spend all your time worrying about Satan and demons and the like, then that gives it power over you.
The Bible says the devil (the accuser) exists.
So IMHO he does.
He just doesn’t have power over you if you have the Holy Spirit in you, which all christians do (24 hours a day every day)
If you’d said that, fine. But that’s not what you said; your exact words are quoted in the OP of this thread.
You haven’t addressed that. You haven’t explained that “promiscuity” comment you made. :mad: You keep making statements about your Christian view of the world that contradict the Bible. You ignore questions or responses to your points.
As I said in the other thread, I don’t dislike you as a person. I certainly feel very strongly that you and everyone else has the right to believe whatever they believe. I ask, though, that:
You don’t be snide and make sweeping generalizations like the promiscuity comment,
If you do make religious statements, that they are true within the parameters of that faith–in other words, that you know what the Bible says,
And if you are in GD, accept that you need to debate in an acceptable, logical fashion. “It’s true because I believe it,” just isn’t going to cut it.
OK Squish I retract the word “promiscuous” and replace it with “pre-marital”. Though I still feel some people don’t feel promiscuity is wrong.
I don’t think demons spend much time keeping unbelieving atheists from finding God. I don’t feel many of them are actually looking, which is why I said what I said.
If I choose to debate in GD then I will do it in any “fashion” I so desire. Don’t read my posts if you don’t feel what I say is “acceptable or logical”.
If you choose to debate in GD, you’d better be prepared to defend and uphold your positions with consistancy, reasoned assertions, and relevant cites. If you fail to do this in GD, expect to get your fanny chewed off.
If you are not willing to adhere to the standards of GD, stay out of it, and post in MPSIMS, IMHO, and other less rigourous areas.
Well, I hope you don’t mind if I come to your church in my raggedy t-shirt and faded jeans, pop open a coke, and watch The Simpsons on my portable TV during the sermon. If I chose to attend Church, I will do it in any “fashion” I so desire.
:rolleyes: 