I'm Sorry, But I Refuse to Share Your Defeatest Attitude

[Tuckerfan]

@Philster

Why don’t you narrow down who ‘you’ is in your rant?

If you were addressing a few narrow-minded pompous a-holes that don’t actually represent everyone, me thinks you’d call them by name. Okay, we get the whole Tuckerfan refutes-some-right-wing-talking-points, but address your rant towards >insert who you are pitting<.

Sure, I’ll narrow it down, when you can prove that I’ve painted everyone who is a Republican/conservative (they’re not necessarily the same thing, BTW) with a broadbrush, and that I’ve claimed that all of them are a bunch of defeatist pricks who think we’re all doomed unless we blindly follow the Chimp-in-Chief.

Of course, I have a feeling that if I were to actually name one specific individual (which I could) as being the inspiration for this rant, you’d ignore that and claim that I was stating that everyone who’s a Republican/conservative (of which this person claims to be neither) thought the same as them.

jali, no I’m not serving in Iraq, nor do I think that the folks serving in Iraq are doing a pisspoor job. Their Chimp-in-Chief, however, is another story.

Hampshire, they do. A former coworker of mine’s father and uncles (To name but one example.) have been buying up weapons and ammo by the assload since the 70s, all to prepare “for the coming race war.” Give folks like that an excuse, and they’ll happily shoot anyone slightly browner than they are.

[Giraffe]

@Tuckerfan

And our government surrenders while a zillion Al Qaeda sleeper cells suddenly become active to take control of our country. While you might think that all of America is simply going to say, “Well, okay.” I happen to know that every freakin’ redneck in America is going to whip out almost as much firepower as the US military has and begin shooting anyone who looks vaguely middle eastern.

Here’s where you’re wrong. Surely we’ll greet them as liberators.

[Menocchio]

I liked the OP.

I have heard plenty of right-wingers who feel that AQ is a threat to the actual existence of the US, or at least would be if we left Iraq.

I disagree, for reasons outlined in the OP.

[LilShieste]

@Menocchio

I liked the OP.

I have heard plenty of right-wingers who feel that AQ is a threat to the actual existence of the US, or at least would be if we left Iraq.

I disagree, for reasons outlined in the OP.

Seconded. These talking points are ones that are shared with us by: our president, our vice-president, several presidential candidates, and of course many talking heads.

I never got the impression that Tuckerfan was lumping all conservatives/republicans into this line of thinking.
LilShieste

[John_Mace]

@Tuckerfan

Let’s just say that terrorist do manage to detonate a nuke on US soil. I can tell you exactly what’s going to happen, no matter who is President: The entire world is going to collectively crap their pants and say, “Oh, shit. We’re all fucked now.” The various governments of the world will be falling all over themselves to try and prove that they had nothing to do with it, except, of course, for the nation who was so stupid as to be involved. They’ll probably be able to get off a “neener neener neener” before their country is reduced to radioactive slag.

Oh, but you say, if there’s a Democrat in the White House, they’ll say we have to be nice to the poor misunderstood terrorists and surrender to them. No, sorry. If we somehow manage to elect Wimpy McPissypanties as President, and they try to pull that shit, I’m confident that someone (probably in the Secret Service or the Joint Chiefs) will sit the President down and show them that lovely little scene in JFK where Kevin Costner keeps saying, “Back, and to the left.” over and over again. If President McPissypanties still says we need to send the terrorists a bunch of Rainbow MonkeyTM dolls to try and smooth things over, President McPissypanties will suddenly “be unable to perform their duties as President” and be replaced by the Vice President who will have a firm idea of what needs to be done. (Can you say, “Just witnessed an ‘accidental’ weapons discharge that incapacitated the President.”? I knew you could.) What makes me say this? My faith in the American people.

I don’t hear a lot of talk about how the righties and lefties would react differently after such an attack. What I usually hear is what they would do differently to prevent such an attack from happening in the first place. You can disagree about which side is correct, but I think you’re focusing on the wrong angle here.

And the idea that a country might supply nukes to terrorists and then stick their tongues out at us afterwards just so we know it was them is… well, just so stupid I don’t know what to say.

[Tuckerfan]

@John Mace

I don’t hear a lot of talk about how the righties and lefties would react differently after such an attack. What I usually hear is what they would do differently to prevent such an attack from happening in the first place. You can disagree about which side is correct, but I think you’re focusing on the wrong angle here.

Obviously, we don’t move in the same circles.

And the idea that a country might supply nukes to terrorists and then stick their tongues out at us afterwards just so we know it was them is… well, just so stupid I don’t know what to say.

Admittedly a bit of hyperbole on my part, but not really all that different from what the Taliban did after 9/11. If you’ll recall, they first denied having anything to do with Osama, and then threatened to unleash him if we went after them.

[kidchameleon]

You are a pretentious ass wipe. Get yourself fucking stuffed.

[Tuckerfan]

@kidchameleon

You are a pretentious ass wipe. Get yourself fucking stuffed.

Nice refutation there, kidchameleon. You showed up, posted a bunch of cites from unbiased sources which completely proved that I was talking out of my ass, and then politely suggested that I rethink my position. Oh, wait. No you didn’t. You just did a drive-by insult before fleeing.

I’ll let you in on a little secret: If Shrub were to suggest that we were going to put 500K combat troops on the ground in Iraq, I wouldn’t have a problem with that, since that might actually work, whereas the present “surge” is certain to yield nothing more than more dead people. Admittedly, it’s not my preferred solution, but given that that’s better than what we have now, I wouldn’t bitch about it.

[kidchameleon]

@Tuckerfan

Nice refutation there, kidchameleon. You showed up, posted a bunch of cites from unbiased sources which completely proved that I was talking out of my ass, and then politely suggested that I rethink my position. Oh, wait. No you didn’t. You just did a drive-by insult before fleeing.

I wasn’t talking about you. The you in my post was referring to the yous that are pretentious ass wipes who deserve to get fucking stuffed.

[Cowboy8467]

@Larry Borgia

As someone who’s likely to be killed if AQ gets a nuke, I agree with the OP. Al qaeda simply doesn’t pose an existential threat to the U.S. If we abandon Iraq, the threat they pose won’t get any worse than it is now.

Well that is certainly comforting. :eek:

[John_Mace]

@Tuckerfan

Obviously, we don’t move in the same circles.

Most of my friends are pretty hard-core Republicans who supported the Iraq war. But they’re not Texans.

Admittedly a bit of hyperbole on my part, but not really all that different from what the Taliban did after 9/11. If you’ll recall, they first denied having anything to do with Osama, and then threatened to unleash him if we went after them.

I recall the first part but not the second. And that’s not supported by the timeline outlined in wikipedia:

The Taliban refused to directly speak to Bush, stating that talking with a non-Muslim political leader would be an insult to Islam. But they made statements through their embassy in Pakistan: the Taliban rejected the ultimatum on September 21, 2001, saying there was no evidence in their possession linking bin Laden to the September 11 attacks. On September 22, 2001 the United Arab Emirates and later Saudi Arabia withdrew their recognition of the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan, leaving neighboring Pakistan as the only remaining country with diplomatic ties. On October 4, 2001 it is believed that the Taliban covertly offered to turn bin Laden over to Pakistan for trial in an international tribunal that operated according to Islamic Sharia law.[8] Pakistan is believed to have rejected the offer.

Moderates within the Taliban allegedly met with American embassy officials in Pakistan in mid-October to work out a way to convince Mullah Muhammed Omar to turn bin Laden over to the U.S. and avoid its impending retaliation. President Bush rejected these offers made by the Taliban as insincere. On October 7, 2001, before the onset of military operations, the Taliban made an open offer to try bin Laden in Afghanistan in an Islamic court.[9] This counteroffer was immediately rejected by the U.S. as insufficient. It was not until October 14, 2001, seven days after war had broken out, that the Taliban openly offered to hand bin Laden over to a third country for trial, but only if they were given evidence of bin Laden’s involvement in 9/11.[10]

I think your memory is faulty.

[Duke_of_Rat]

@John Mace

Most of my friends are pretty hard-core Republicans who supported the Iraq war. But they’re not Texans.

What the fuck do Texans have to do with it?

[lowbrass]

@Tuckerfan

If we somehow manage to elect Wimpy McPissypanties as President

Hey, c’mon - I like Kucinich.

[Tuckerfan]

@kidchameleon

I wasn’t talking about you. The you in my post was referring to the yous that are pretentious ass wipes who deserve to get fucking stuffed.

IOW, you’re one of the defeatest pricks who thinks that if we pull out of Iraq now (or at any time other than when the Chimp-in-Chief says it’s okay to), we’ll all be dead within a fortnight 'cuz the terrarists will have taken over, but you’re too chickenshit to say so.

John Mace, actually, the person who inspired the OP was born in Berkley and currently cowers in San Jose. Oh, and my memory may be faulty, but I wasn’t talking about a back channel declaration that the Taleban had made, but a public pronouncement. I’m sure you’ll agree that it’s entirely possible that the Taleban would publicly say one thing and do another? (As would we, nor does that prove I was right about what the Taleban said.) You would agree, however, that the Taleban’s requests for evidence and offers to try Osama in an Islamic court were less than genuine, would you not? Do you have any reason to believe that if, for example, Iran were to give Osama a nuke, which he then detonated in the US, that the Iranians would act any different than the Taleban did when we demanded that Osama be turned over to us?

[kidchameleon]

@Tuckerfan

IOW, you’re one of the defeatest pricks who thinks that if we pull out of Iraq now (or at any time other than when the Chimp-in-Chief says it’s okay to), we’ll all be dead within a fortnight 'cuz the terrarists will have taken over, but you’re too chickenshit to say so.

No, I was commenting on your[Tuckerfan’s] rediculous stance over your[Tuckerfan’s] vague use of ‘you[unspecified boogieman/men]’ in the OP.

Of course, the fact that you act in a Bush-like manner when criticized really says something.

I think pulling out now is a bad idea because of the escellation of warfare that will occur in Iraq resulting in increased civilian deaths. Iraq is almost insignificant compared to our presence on the Arabian peninsula as far as AQ is concerned, IME.

[Fear_Itself]

@kidchameleon

I think pulling out now is a bad idea because of the escellation of warfare that will occur in Iraq resulting in increased civilian deaths.

And what makes you think this will not occur if we stay for another 2 years, or 5 years, or 50 years? If the greatest military power in the world is incapable of qwelling sectarian violence, what makes you think the much less well trained and equipped Iraqi forces have any more chance of achieving what has eluded our forces?

[lowbrass]

defeat, defeater, defeatest. Does that mean the most defeat?

[AHunter3]

a) I agree with the general sentiment of the OP, and given a sufficient supply of decent amber beer or some añejo tequila could have written it myself.

b) And if the OP was indeed posting while intoxicated, you gotta admire anyone who can repeatedly render McPissypanties sans typos while under the influence.

[NurseCarmen]

My reading in the OP was that the “you” was actually 28% of Americans.

tied with Carter for the all-time low!

[Tuckerfan]

@kidchameleon

No, I was commenting on your[Tuckerfan’s] rediculous stance over your[Tuckerfan’s] vague use of ‘you[unspecified boogieman/men]’ in the OP.

Riiiiight. Of course, were I reacting to something a specific poster here had said, I’d have no problem naming them, were it inspired strictly by something the Chimp in Chief said, I’d have no problem naming him, and while it was a specific individual who inspired this thread, they don’t post here, plus they were just parroting shit they’d picked up from innumerable sources (if you go to rantburg, you can probably find a compendium of their sources, footnoted, cited, crossreferenced, indexed, annotated, hyperlinked, and backed up with paranoid ravings from people of both parties), so tell me, how the fuck I could make a readable OP if I listed all that in place of “you”?

Of course, the fact that you act in a Bush-like manner when criticized really says something.

Funny, I don’t remember any exchanges like this happening:

Me: I have giant flaming testicles.

You: Cite that you have giant flaming testicles.

Me: I never said that I had giant flaming testicles.

You: Yes you did, right up there.

Me: You’re taking my words out of context and twisting them.

Find where I did that and you’ll have a point.

I think pulling out now is a bad idea because of the escellation of warfare that will occur in Iraq resulting in increased civilian deaths.

Let’s see here, the current estimate of civilian deaths since the war began is up to 650K, and so far, it looks like surge or no surge we’re on a pace to continue the same rate of civilian deaths. I don’t like the idea of innocent people dying (as surely most of them in Iraq are), but I don’t see where we’ve done much good at stopping anything. Put 500K combat troops in Iraq, and we most likely will see a rapid decline in civilian deaths, but where the fuck are we going to get the troops? Maybe ol’ Georgie boy can whip them out of his ass?

Iraq is almost insignificant compared to our presence on the Arabian peninsula as far as AQ is concerned, IME.

Meh, if they weren’t bitching about us being in the Mid-East, they’d find some other reason to complain. Whackjobs always find a reason to bitch, no matter how much you try to appease them.

AHunter3, the only thing I’m intoxicated on is the rabid, allnight nihilism of the Church of the SubGenius[sup]TM[/sup]! Kill “Bob” or kill me!

NurseCarmen, shhhh! You’ll get us on some kind of federal watch list for implying such a thing. Even though you’re completely right.