Another reason for a lack of discretion can be to avoid any allegations of discrimination.
Suppose you have a white security guard. A white guy comes up with a driver’s licence that just expired last week. The guard decides that’s close enough for government work, and lets the guy through.
Then someone of a different race comes up with a licence that expired six months ago. Guard decides not to let him through.
The difference between a week’s expiry and six months’ expiry may be a reasonable distinction, but it also may leave the employer open to an allegation of differential treatment.
For the front line folks, bright line rules are a good thing, even if they’re arbitrary bright lines. Lack of discretion means that the same rules apply to everyone.
I would assume that in most cases, they will accept a passport as proof, but I read a post on a travel board from a tourist who was actually denied entrance at a club because he couldn’t (obviously) provide an US ID. His passport wasn’t accepted as a proof.
So apparently, it does happen. Probably not in the most touristed areas, though.
People’s appearance changes over time. For a photo ID to serve any purpose at all, the photo ought to resemble you. If an eighty year old walks into a place that requires photo ID, using an ID issued when he was twenty, the photo is not going to resemble him, and might as well not be there at all. Yes, that’s an extreme example. But if you’re not going to allow an ID 60 years out of date, but do allow one 6 months out of date, then where do you draw the line? 1 year out of date? 2 years? OK, now once you’ve made that decision, why not just call that the new expiration date?
Thanks Nametag and all the others who supplied the answer to my question.
TV, movies and books make it clear that driving licences are used as ID cards in the US, so some of us foreigners can be forgiven for coming away with the impression that driving, or at least passing a driving test, is obligatory in your country. :rolleyes:
I wouldn’t call it obligatory, but in a lot of places it’s pretty hard to survive without one. A lot of people are living further away from work these days…which is why suspending licenses doesn’t really seem to be an answer any more. People drive anyway. What the answer is, I don’t know.
An out-of-date ID couldn’t get me on an airplane, but it did get me a new drivers liscense.
Yesterday morning I walked into TexDPS and told the lady I lost my current DL. She said I needed some sort of picture ID. I produced my old DL (expired 2002) and it was accepted.
And :::happy dance::: I’d lost 50 pounds since that old picture.
A freind of mine was living in Boston for 6 months and she was denied entry to many bars because she had an out of state licence. Didn’t make any difference that she also had her Canadian passport, they refused to serve her alcohol with an out-of-state licence.
Happened to me in '85. I was 24 at the time and was going to pick up a six pack at a 7-11 … uh… on the corner of Addison and Western. I looked young enough to be carded so I showed my passport with, mind you, text in Swedish and English. “Sorry, I can only sell you alcoholic beverages if you have a valid Illinois ID.”
“But I’m an exchange student, fresh off the boat.”
“Sorry, I can only sell you alcoholic beverages if you have a valid Illinois ID.”
“But look here, it states my date of birth. I’m 24”
“Sorry, I can only sell you alcoholic beverages if you have a valid Illinois ID.”
and so on.
Had had to walk to a mom and pop store nearby to get the beer. They didn’t even look at me there.
How old’s this law? I was stationed there for 2.5 years, and all I ever had was a Michigan license or a military ID. I even used a fake military ID I’d made just for the fun of it (back when inkjets were still high-end and you didn’t typically have to worry about poor soldiers faking ID’s).
The security guy was doing his job right. He probably has a list of what’s allowed, and it would include “valid State driver’s license” and “valid State ID”. If it’s expired, it’s not valid, so it’s not on the list. Any other oddity would shoot it down also.
Yes, you aren’t required to have a State-issued ID, except that without it you can’t drive, you can’t enter buildings, you can’t get a job, you can’t fly, you can’t get your money out of your bank account.
And the states have coordinated their ID databases, so the United States didn’t have to issue a required Federal ID card, which would have been politically unfeasible.
Back to the subject, I found my driver’s license was expired when I went to my bank for money. He bent the point (it’s a very human instution), by asking me for all the information that was in my paperwork–birthdate, SSN, address, phone, …) and it worked out.
PS, I like the phrase ‘security theatre’. Too true.
Another reason to be wary of expired ID’s is that the issuing authority might have made significant changes in the ID since the previous issue. This puts security people in the difficult position of maintaining authentication procedures for current and previous ID’s, which is not really practical. They already have to be able to authenticate ID’s from 50 states… it really complicates things if they have to authenticate past versions of all those licenses.
Either you accept that we live in an ID based society, or you don’t. If you do, you accept that an ID has to be current for it to be valid.
Exactly what I was thinking. Care to provide a full cite of this Texas law? I should think that alcohol sellers in areas of Texas where tourists are common would lobby full force against this. Along with the rest of the tourist industry too. Would they really want tourists to avoid Texas, and instead travel to states where tourists can buy alcohol?
I’d also think this alleged Texas law would violate the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution. It would discriminate against citizens of other states who were in Texas. I’d also have to wonder how any Texas judge could uphold such a law given that my Michigan driver’s license allows me to drive on Texas roads. It makes no sense that my Michigan driver’s license is adequate for a Texas deputy that pulls me over, but is null and void in a Texas bar.
Banks aren’t required to ask for ID. Ideally with financial institutions it is “know your customer.” IDs can be forged. If the teller knows me personally, and when I walk in recognizes me, this is the optimal kind of ID.
Sometimes you have to coerce people into not being idiots. I don’t have a driver’s license. Never have, never will. But I have a Green Card, with my picture on it.
Twice now, cab drivers have begun to refuse to accept my credit card because I didn’t have a license for ID. I always take out my Green Card, and when they don’t want to accept it, either, I tell them the following:
“If this identification is good enough for the United States Government, the Canadian Government, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Canadian Security Intelligence Service, The Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Central Intelligence Agency, INTERPOL, and the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service, it’s good enough for you and this freakin’ $10 car ride.”
I have three instances of Kafka-life ID checking.
My brother and I were on our way to jam with some other musicians and we wanted to get a bottla sumthin. We pulled over at a local liquor store. We were greeted at the door by a clerk. I’m a young looking 28 and my brother, a young looking 24. I’m used to getting carded. I give him my ID, which he scrutinizes and finally, with a roll of his eyes, admits me into the store. My brother, who never learned to drive, gives his clear and valid state ID card. The clerk’s face lights up as he gleefully tells my bro he can’t let him in the store with a state ID. Drivers license only…store policy. (???) The guy really got a kick out of that.
The second instance is one I like to see. In Illinois where I’m licensed, you have the option of renewing your DL by mail. If your record is clean and there’s no problems, they send you a renewal sticker to put on the back of the license. A lot of checkout clerks don’t know this. I don’t know why some people take so much pleasure from telling others that their identification is insufficient to buy beer but little makes me happier than shoving it back in their smarmy faces. I’ve even perfected a ‘flip it over’ gesture for those that smile a little too brightly.
The third type makes little sense as well. In Illinois, like other states, I’m sure, we have pretty obvious “Under 21” labeling and the background in the photo is red vs. blue for the over 21ers. Few a few weeks after I turned 21 but before I got a new, blue license, a bunch of places gave me a hard time about using my new privledge.
Beerman: “Sorry…you’re not old enough.”
Me: “Uh, my 21st birthday was a few days ago.”
BM: “It says ‘Under 21’.”
Me: “Like I said, I’ve only been old enough for a few days. Look at the birthday.”
BM: “Nice try, buddy. Now get out.”
Me: “Ok, I’m going. Hey, don’t push.”
So the law doesn’t demand that only Texas ID be used to purchase alcohol, it just provides a convenient excuse for stores to create a hardline policy which, coupled with a “card everyone” policy means that they will refuse to sell booze to a 50 year old from out of state in order to avoid any penalties they may incur if said 50 year old turns out to be 20 and from Texas.
In other words, it’s a way to help those of us from outside of Texas decipher which grocery stores have management too unintelligent to deserve our money.
That’s just laziness. Not all ID-checkers pull that. We took my brother out for dinner the night before his 21st birthday, and then to a bar afterwards–entered the bar about 12:30 am. The guy checking IDs at the door looked at his license–with the red “under 21” labeling–looked at his watch, and let him in.
Well, no. It’s definitely the store. The law says absolutely nothing about requiring stores to check ID for alcohol sales. It only states what forms of ID are acceptable for the store to cover itself. Stores then set their policies for ID checking, not the law. A legal-aged ATF officer can walk into a liquor store and if the clerk doesn’t ask for ID, the ATF guy has nothing to say about it.
