Are these decent computers? I have always had Windows computers, but since I got my iPod I have been taking a look at the Apple site and I saw these iMacs. Yesterday I went to a store and saw them in person…way cool. I have used Macs very, very little. Just a couple times at school when the presentation computers were Macs or once when there was a specific program only on the Macs.
I am considering the 20" model. I don’t do much video editing (just putting stuff on my video iPod), but I do work with digital photos but nothing major - just tweaking and minor fixing. I don’t play games usually (I get addicted and waste all my time). Surfing the web and doing stuff as a student is what I’m doing (papers, research, etc).
Is 512 MB of RAM (standard offering) adequate?
Is learning a Mac going to be a problem?
I am not going to worry that much about compatibility because I will still have my Windows laptop, so any program I need that won’t run on a Mac I’ll put on there.
So what is the scoop on iMacs - good value for the money, or a lot of show?
I will admit I thought they were pretty slick with the nifty graphics and I’m afraid I get sucked in by the oooh looky factor. I want a good computer, not just a computer that looks good.
I will be watching this thread closely, so I hope Apple fans will reply. I received an Apple laptop for Christmas, and I decided to keep it because
I have never used an Apple and have heard they are stable as anything and everyone who has one always raves, and
I have a strong desire to keep a “pure” environment. So, no internet hookups, no spyware, just good old computer power to download my digital pictures, upload my music into my iPod, etc. etc.
However, my first attempt at doing something simple in windows was a total trainwreck on my apple. I tried to throw a CD into it and copy my music to the harddrive. Now, I have used windows for 15 years or so, so it may be that I’m just wired wrong. But it wasn’t intuitive to me at all.
I struggled because it seems that the apple software expects you to be wired to the internet. When I first powered up the machine, it launched into a registration process. However, since I don’t want to hook it up to the internet, I didn’t have a connection. Apple didn’t like this. After getting stuck in a loop of trying to get out of this program, I finally got it to take my information without taking an internet setting.
Ok, no big deal. So I toss my Bruce Hornsby CD in the computer, and whammo! Problem 2. It seems that Apple wants to go to the internet to get the information on my CD instead of reading it by itself with the included software. Now I will concede that I may have to just change a setting… but this, in my opinion, is bullshit. When I pop that same cd into my windows-based computer, MS media player pops up with the song titles, length of song, and Artist.
After 20 minutes of digging around, I finally brute forced it. I had to hand type each song, the artist, album, blah blah blah into the software interface to save one CD. I could have saved 30 in the same amount of time on my good old PC.
I’m not saying they are bad. They are different. I feel like I’m learning a new language that is close to english, but the same word means different things. I am holding out hope that the learning curve is low and I’ll be cranking in no time.
If anyone knows how I can streamline CD copying on my apple please let me know. Also, please let me know if I can indeed have a pure environment, or is it going to be manditory for me to sign up on the web with this machine? (One of the software packages already popped up and let me know that it was out of date and was trying to download it’s patches from the internet. But no connection. D’oh!
I guess Apple has designed this for the idiot in all of us, and not for someone who might have a desire to not have viruses, etc downloaded on their machine.
I can tell you right now that this thread is probably going to end up in Great Debates. I personally would never buy a Mac for numerous reasons that Apple fans would get worked into a lather about. Personally fandom of a electronic product is silly, but that’s neither here nor there.
The points which seem most salient to the OP are these.
I think you’ll be tearing out your hair trying to get used to working on a Mac. Most PC users, myself included, are so used to the style and logic involved in using a Windows OS get totally befuddled trying to get used to a Mac OS.
Personally I think the Mac OS is clumbsy and less user-friendly, but that’s difficult to assess objectively. In any case it’s not a easy transition IMHO.
I think Apple products are way over priced for what they are. You pay far too much for the “oooh and ahhh” factor like you stated. The premium price you pay for the cabinet and bezel and Apple cult status is totally out of place in the wolrd of computers. To me a computer is a tool, not a fashion statement. I’ll be the first guy lining up to by the cool new style of clothes or car, but I think a computer is more comparable to a power tool than a car. I want one that works and is cheap and put a low priority on looks.
My last issue is the general inability to self-service and upgrade Mac machines. I’m a tinkerer and I like to be able to walking into any electronics/computer store and buy hardware and software that allows me to essentially upgrade my PC far beyond it perscribed lifespan.
I think it’s poor judgement to spend upwards of $2400 on a product based on what works best with a $250 Ipod.
The G5 is quite possibly the biggest, most over built, heaviest and clumsiest cabinet I’ve ever seen. The damn thing weighs 68 pounds!!! Why?
Your issue with copying the CD is a hassle that you’re likely to go through any and every time that you try and do something new on that Mac. And there’s a much smaller set of support articles which apply to a Mac.
Now lets wait for the Mac-heads to arrive and flame me for my closemindedness, pigheadedness or plain ole dogmatic toting of the Microsoft party line.
All Mac users are Zealots and all PC users are misinformed.
The OP would find that 512mb would be the bare minimum, but would be best to NOT buy more RAM from apple. There are plenty of people who sell identical RAM cheaper.
You will find the time you spend on a PC doing maintenance (is your virus scanner up to date? Disk defragged? Spyware software working? Microsoft Updates updated?) Just. Doesn’t. Exist. on the Mac. I make my livelyhood in maintaining a PC server/workstation environment (250 servers, 1500 workstations). When I go home, the last thing I want to do is more maintenance. I have an iBook and love it.
That said, I’m fluent in XP, a few different Unixes, and have used close to two dozen operating systems over the last 25 years…a different way of doing things doesn’t confound me much.
What I’ve found is: If you wrap your head around the way Apple does stuff, you’ll find it VERY consistent. You’ll also find that most of the stuff that requires a utility purchase on the PC is included on the Apple. (CD and DVD burning is built in. And it’s not a ‘Special Edition’ broken just enough to get you to buy the full version. It works, and works well)
Blond Bomber The complaints you have are SPECIFICALLY caused by not connecting the computer to the internet. That’s not really the fault of the computer. CDs have a unque ID that can be used to query online databases to find track information. Are you SURE your laptop was never connected to the internet when you inserted Bruce’s CD? If you’d purchased an XP laptop brand new, there’s a registration process there too. It requires internet access, or a modem, or a phonecall.
Omniscient The learning curve is shorter than you suspect. Especially if you a)have some help, and b) have the windows PC to fall back on until you learn about the Mac. There is nothing the PC can do, that the Mac can’t (quite frankly better). Learning to use the PC takes motivation, why would learning a Mac be any different?
The machine in question starts at $1800, and fits completely in the bezel for the screen, you’re thinking about the G5 tower. At any rate, the desire to buy a Mac based in owning an iPod is not unusual…I did the same and haven’t regretted it. Fandom doesn’t really enter into it as I’ve got all sorts of computing resources hanging around me. In a house with a hot fast Linux fileserver, a Hot fast hyperthreaded P4 workstation with XP, and a pretty snappy PC laptop, I prefer living in a 1 Ghz 12" iBook. I prefer doing video editing on the slow little iBook using iLife over Pinnacle Studio on the workstation. It’s just as responsive and the results are better.
So, mark me up as another fan, but it’s based on years of experience.
Just for clarification - I’m looking at the iMacs (everything is in the monitor - there is no tower), not the Power Macs. iMacs are much cheaper, plus I get a student discount. I need a new computer anyways, and I will still have my Windows laptop to do stuff on if I get too frustrated.
Uh, unless your PC came with the album and track names of every CD ever produced, it had to connect to the internet to accomplish that. CDs don’t just have that information embedded in them.
As to the OP, you’ll get hugely emphatic opinions on each side wherever you ask - plenty of people (myself included) feel that the Mac is way more intuitive than Windows, but that’s because I’m used to it. Then there are others who are confortable with both. My advice is to go find someone who has a Mac, get the guided tour, and make up your own mind about it.
It’s funny. I use a Mac and have no difficulties using a Windows system. Yet, I hear Windows users complaining about how exasperating using a Mac turned out to be.
I don’t mean to insult anyone, but I wonder how many brain cells people devote to using a Mac?
I have PS2 & Gamecube video consoles. They each have different controls and besides that, each and every game I play on either platform requires a few minutes of getting used to the controls, and I’d say video game controls from game to game are much more dissimilar than the difference between Windows & Mac controls.
iPods are quite popular, yet they definitely require a few minutes’ learning how the darn things navigate, etc.
I can’t advise the OP about getting an iMac G5 or not, but I’d strongly suggest ignoring anyone who tells you not to get a Mac because the controls are hard compared to Windows.
You’re confusing the Power Mac G5 with the G5 iMac.
The OP was talking about an iMac, not the Power Mac, which is intended more for professional users. The iMac starts at $1,300 and is self-contained within the display and most certainly doesn’t weigh 68 pounds.
You’re going to find the choice between Mac and PC is mostly one of personal preferences. But what I think swings the deal to the Mac in my book is that security in terms of virsuses and such, currently, is not a major concern.
I just recently got a 20 inch iMac G5, with 1 gig of memory. I would recommend going with a whole gig of memory at least. You could survive on 512, but extra memory always makes a big difference. I’m very happy with this computer, the monitor is excellent, the design is wonderful, the included apps (iLife, etc) are great, and the operating system is incredible. At around $2000, it seems like a good deal to me.
I’m sure. The computer was never and has never been hooked up to the internet. As I mentioned, when I powered it up, I had a hell of a time getting past the “registration” program. However,
Now that I’m forced to think about it, perhaps you are correct. I may very well have been hooked up to the internet. But are you sure that CD’s don’t have this information on them? The reason I ask is I copied my copy of an audio book so I could have it on my laptop. And I could SWEAR that I didn’t hook up to the internet. And all that information was downloaded as well. I would have remembered if I had to type the title of the book, all of the chapters, etc. from an 11-CD volumn.
Some CDs have the track info included on the disc. When I play them in my DVD player, the track names appear in the onscreen display. I’ve noticed that Roxio’s Toast and Jam support burning audio CDs with ‘CD-Text’. I’ve only seen a few discs with this feature, though.
The iMac G5 is a good machine, probably the best Apple sells right now. Despite what Omniscient says (now there’s an ironic user name), you’re not paying very much of a premium for the machine, considering what you get (built-in webcam, nice flat panel, media manager w/ remote control, best-in-class multimedia software, small footprint, etc.). I would invest in some aftermarket RAM to bump that box up to 1 GB, though it will be usable at 512. Otherwise, for what you intend to do with it, you should have a good experience with the machine right out of the box. Apple is very much on the rise now, particularly on college campuses, so you shouldn’t have much trouble finding help if you need it. There’s a lot of great websites with helpful people as well.
Blonde Bomber, quit being a scaredy-cat and hook that machine up to the internet. This isn’t Windows you’re using here; there are no viruses or spyware currently written to target the Mac OS. You’re not going to encounter the customary gradual degradation in performance that so many Windows users know and meekly accept; your system will be perfectly healthy.
This reply was written on a PowerMac G4 from 1999, with an upgraded processor, optical drive, video card, HDD (twice), and RAM. I admit the iMac G5 is a different story, in that it’s not designed to be as user-servicable, but a thriving upgrade industry grew up around the original iMacs, so I’m sure the same will happen again.
Do I have your word on that? I’ll be knocking on your door in the middle of the night if this thing *does * get infected.
I’m not scared so much as I am cautious. I have grown weary of the constant battle between viruses, spyware, malware, etc. and anti-virus software that just continues to take more and more space on my hard-drive. Since I don’t need a computer to surf, why would I want to take the chance if I didn’t have to?
Apple is making me have to. That blows. And I find it hard to believe that there aren’t viruses out there that don’t infect the Apple platform. Do you have a cite for that claim?
Do Macs have anyway of doing TV? Example: my desktop computer now has an ATI TV tuner card that is hooked right into my cable connection so I can watch and record TV from it…anything similar for Mac?
Where can I purchase cheaper RAM?
Can I hook my wireless network up to it? In otherwords, is airport compatible with the Wireless b network I already have?
For those who are interested in a rational explanation of why Apple’s products do make sense for many consumers, I suggest reading the Wall Street Journal’s tech guy, Walter Mossberg.
Linux, Mac OSX, and occasional FreeBSD and OpenDarwin user here (as well as Windows 2000 at work). First of all, you can make some config changes that will prevent it from trying to look outside; look under Preferences for the individual applications and you should find a switch that permits connection to iTunes or whatever other service it is trying to connect to.
Second, Mac OSX is based upon a variant of FreeBSD (a Unix-like operating system) running a Mach kernel. By the nature of its configuration–being a collection of servers and utilities operating off of a modularized, loadable microkernel rather than a monolithic kernel–makes it both inherently more efficient of system resources and more secure; a vulnerability in one utility–which has happened in Unix apps occasionaly–isn’t likely to allow an intruder to access the whole operating system or violate the integrity of other applications. Also, the underlying operating system, Darwin/OpenDarwin, and the FreeBSD system it derives from are both open source; this means that both the development and testing have been done by literally thousands of people, many of whom are dedicated to identifying and patching bugs, breaches, and breaks. Since no one makes a profit off of it, there is little incentive to cover up problems or deny their existence; indeed, there is regular reporting of issues by the user/developer public at large and corrections are rapid and (generally) effective. What security breaches exist in modern Unix systems are typically the result of sloppy system adminstration and failure to install patches.
This security is enhanced by other configuration selections that Apple made with regard to OSX; in particularly, deactivating the root (administrative account) by default, so that in order to make any system changes you have to sudo in with the root password. In contrast, it is trivial in a Windows system to make changes to the system registries (REGSYS) and in fact the way the OS is configured it has to offer access to any installed software package that directly uses system services; because of a lack of graduated permissions system in the various Windows OSs, the security of the system once you’ve accessed the host machine is badly broken. It’s not just Mac/Unix adolation that feeds claims of Windows insecurity; it is the actual architecture of the system which was never designed to be a secure multi-user OS in the first place. And password access and file system encryption on OSX/Darwin is not only superior to Windows but also superior to most turnkey Unix or Linux turnkey installations.
Mac OSX also makes setting up firewall constraints relatively straightforward, and indeed, many unneeded services are deactivated by default; whereas plugging a Windows machine onto an open network is like going on vacation and leaving your windows and back door unlatched; a secure windows system basically requires installing third party firewall services, a fact the major corporation I work for (that continually insists on using Windows servers for Web and NFS services) doesn’t seem to grasp, given the regular attacks and downtime we suffer.
Finally, the default applications, like Mail and Safari (web browser) don’t have the gaping security holes and vulnerabilities that Windows has. Mail won’t run an executable just because you open up a message with an attachment; even if it did, it can’t access system components and format the hard drive or change registry settings. About the only kind of viruses you’re likely to encounter are macro viruses for commerical, shared platform applications, like (here we go again) Microsoft Word, and then, all it can do is corrupt individual documents, not system settings. About the only way you can suffer infection on a Unix-type box is to install a precompiled binary with a Trojan virus inside, and the only attacks that are likely to have any effect are Denial of Service attacks which are readily dealt with, should they occur, by restricting or closing the port under attack or DROPing the offending IP address. (And this is rare enough that, even if you don’t know what this means, you probably won’t need to do it.)
There are a lot of complaints to be made about Apple and their products–the price, the “lifestyle marketing” bullshit, their jerkoff corporate policies–but overall I find their hardware and OS to be superior to the Microsoft-based alternatives. As for problems “converting over”, there are differences in the interface and a few things that I think are a bit clunky, but overall I think the OSX interface is on part with, if not superior, to Win2K or XP, and you have better access to the back end via the console if you want to turn a wrench. If what you want is a system that you don’t need to manipulate or understand, OSX is clearly superior; it’s very smart about interpreting installed hardware or linking up to a new network, and robust in not suffering from spontaneous application failures or system crashes. In fact, I have yet to suffer a system lock with my G4 PowerBook.
You can find cheaper RAM–look online–but it’s not generally recommended. It may violate warranty, and often cheaper nonspec but allegedly comperable RAM doesn’t work properly.
Hooking up an existing 802.11b or 802.11g access point is simplicity; it’ll find and authenticate the network automatically (if you have AirPort on) and enable access by default. If you have WEP or WPA encryption on the access point (and you should) it’ll figure out which protocol and prompt you for the password, which it can install into your “keyring” for permanent use. I haven’t found a comperable Windows-based client that will do anything similar, and setting up wireless access from a Linux or FreeBSD box is a horror not to be borne.
Yes. I don’t remember the name of it (I think it’s called “Sparkle” but I could be wrong), but it’s more expensive than the PC side of the world. As someone who’s recently made the leap from XP to Linux to Mac in the past couple of months, I can tell you that you won’t have too many problems with switching to a Mac, as far as learning the OS. Yes, Macs do do a few things differently than PCs do (for example on a Mac control+v is not the paste function, it’s the apple key+v) and, quite frankly, the Mac’s one button mouse confused the hell out of me (how do I left click?), but I’ve had no problems using a Micro$oft trackball with my iMac G4, but they’re really minor issues. Probably the most disturbing thing that I’ve noticed about my iMac is that it’s silent. I put it into the room where I kept my PC and moved my PC into the living room, and when I went into the room where the Mac is, I found it unsettling to not hear the faint whisper of a PC fan running.
BB, there is no spyware or viruses (the Mac OS does have built-in antivirus software though) for Macs. PCs control roughly 90% of the market, so spyware folks and scriptkiddie virus writers don’t bother with Macs (which is good for them, since many Mac users are very internet savy folks and could track down the spyware/scripters quickly and hack their machines to ribbons).
Just so you know, Macworld San Francisco (MWSF) starts today or tomorrow.
In any case Steve Job’s keynote is tomorrow (tuesday, jan 10 at 9am pacific) and he often announces new hardware. Nevery buy a Mac shortly before MWSF!
If you want to be super safe, download a utility program called Little Snitch. It’ll alert you any time an application or service wants to establish an internet connection.
Well, partly because any modern operating system, Windows no less than Mac OS X, expects to have access to the web. It’s like buying a TV and just watching over the antenna: sure, you can do it, but it seems like kind of a waste of the machine’s potential.
Anyway, from your talk it sounds like you’re a prime candidate to switch to the Mac. You shouldn’t have to spend your computing life in constant fear of having your system compromised and destroyed; no one should. There’s a better way, and you’ve found it—enjoy it.
This one was written on a PowerBook G3 from 1998, with an upgraded processor, optical drive, two internal hard disks, and RAM. That’s really not half bad for a laptop upgrade path. And 7.5 years after it rolled off the production lines it can run the latest MacOS with aplomb, supports a wide range of technologies (USB, FireWire, AirPort, DVD-burning, external monitor as extended desktop, serial ATA) that weren’t in use back then with a simple pop-in part. Most of them don’t even require installing software drivers (the OS has them). And 7.5 years of solid service isn’t bad for any computer.
The Blonde Bomber
I’ll back up Nonsuch on that. There are no OS X viruses, zero, zip, zilch, none, nada. And as far as viruses you can pick up simply from being online and browsing, there has never been any that infect the Macintosh, under any flavor of MacOS whatsoever.
Here’s a comprehensive summary of your virus risk under OS X:
a) If someone sends you a Microsoft Office file that has a “macro virus” embedded in it, and you double-click it and thereby launch Word or Excel, and you allow it to execute macros when it asks, you can pick up the macro virus, which won’t do anything wicked to your MacOS X system (the payload only executes on a PC) but it can infect other Microsoft Office document files on your computer, and if you send them onwards to PC users, they can get infected and it can mess up their machines.
b) If, hypothetically, you bought up a lot of ancient Macintosh floppy disks full of System 6 & early System 7 era Mac programs from the 80s, and attached a floppy drive and allowed the Classic environment to start up in order to run those old programs, and, hypothetically speaking, those floppies were rife with old Macintosh viruses such as WDEF and nVir and so on, you might, conceivably, find one or two such viruses that could actually execute under MacOS 9 (the OS of the Classic environment) despite having been designed for a much older system, and they might thereby infect some files that are used in MacOS 9. There isn’t a very high likelihood — OS 9 is a PowerPC OS and the viruses all date back to the Motorola 68K series of processor. Oh, and the payoff for these evil threats from the past? They’d try to throw up a message that says “Don’t panic”, or they’d try to rename your hard drive to “Trent Saburo”. (There were also 2-3 “late hits” in the Classic Mac world, viruses that appeared in the MacOS 8 era, but none of them can do anything in the Classic environment of OS X). Not one of these beasts would spread over a local area network connection — they were all designed to infect and spread over floppies, Zip disks, or CD-ROMs.
I admit the iMac G5 is a different story, in that it’s not designed to be as user-servicable, but a thriving upgrade industry grew up around the original iMacs, so I’m sure the same will happen again.
