With respect, it’s so hard to know what any of us would really do in this kind of instantaneous, catastrophic, and devastating situation absent prior training.
I was a trained volunteer firefighter way back when. I would have had no idea whatsoever what to do unless I somehow had access to either a fire blanket or a fire extinguisher.
Clearly the poor fellow was deranged and our mental health system let him down. Now if he lives, he’s in for some difficult recovery. Hope he survives and gets the help he needs.
One if the things they teach you in a first aid class is to take control of the situation and delegate a small number of named people to do concrete tasks that need to be done. (John, call 911. Jane, go get the AED next to the stairwell.)
A bunch of people jumping over each other doesn’t do anyone any good. If someone had taken charge and was emptying a fire extinguisher, the random spectators should stay out of the way. And filming while doing so is harmless.
(I was not aware this happened until i read this thread, so maybe I’m missing something substantive. But from the thread, that’s my take.)
He cited the “Marge and the Monorail” episode of The Simpsons as part of nefarious plot to brainwash the masses.
Conan O’Brien wrote that episode.
Conan O’Brien has a new travel show on Max.
Coincidence?
There was no fire extinguisher until it was brought by officials, there was no designated person in charge (everyone there was a random bystander), and this wasn’t a trained group of people that knew each other.
I’ve been thinking (usually dangerous for me) and from what I’ve read, from his perspective he was boldly and defiantly offering up his very life in order to make a vast and evil conspiracy known to the people so that they might be saved.
From a sane perspective, he just killed himself (probably) for no real reason. It reminds me of Don Quixote. Sure, he’s a deluded moron literally charging at windmills. But in his mind, they are evil giants. When confronted by the giants, does he retreat? Does he pause? No, he charges.
Well, he’s not completely heroic by any standard. We know from the video that he’s a liar, liar….
There’s a more graphic video showing the entire immolation. People are calling for police and screaming. But you can see just how high the flames are (he had doused himself with an accelerant first). There wasn’t a simple means to extinguish this.
Daily Beast profiles the immolating man:
Associates of Azzarello told The Daily Beast that he’d “gone a little haywire” in recent years, with his posts to Facebook growing more and more unhinged.
IANA doctor. But it looked to me as if his lungs would be toast. He can’t have been breathing with such heat, and have any probability of survival. (In my non-medical opinion.)
ETA: Watching the first guy run with his jacket. In the situation, there’s no way I could move that fast because of my injuries.
Nor am I. But that looks like a dead man to me. (I think the point where he falls down and his legs sort of kick is when I think he’s done…On second glance, I’m thinking maybe sooner; his head is first engulfed in flames for several seconds).
He basically wrote that himself, on Facebook, according to this good New York Times story:
It does take a lot longer than that for a seriously mentally ill person to go into remission.
This is a book I’ve never forgotten — the theme comes down to treatment of the seriously mentally ill sometimes being a lot better in the nineteenth century than just about any time, before or after:
OK, thank you for the link (disturbing as it is) as that is a much better illustration of the situation than I was getting from words or the censored clips I’d seen (which link, ironically, would not have been available if no one had been filming…)
I’m one of those crazy-prepared people who actually does have fire extinguishers in my home and vehicles and they have been used three times to put out actual fires. I also helped extinguish a roof fire on a building I was working on with a general contractor. So I think I can say that I am not inclined to be a passive bystander. Admittedly, all of the above were “baby” fires, just getting started (which is exactly when a fire extinguisher is appropriate).
Confronted with what was in that video I don’t know what the fuck I, as an individual, could have done. That was a LOT of fire. They used two large extinguishers on the man, either one of which is considerably larger than what I carry/own. Maybe if I had one of those “fire blankets” I’m seeing advertised once in awhile it might do some good? I dunno. I didn’t see any handy containers of water to throw over the man, either. There just isn’t anything to fight fire with in the area.
Despite successfully dealing with several fires in my past I don’t have the training or the equipment to deal with that particular situation. Not to mention the fencing… are people supposed to be leaping over that? Going around? Where’s the entrance to that area?
I get it - you see that horrible thing and you want to FIX it. Make it stop happnening NOW.
So… what would YOU do? Throwing your hands up and saying “Just do SOMETHING!!!” isn’t an answer. You need to have some sort of plan otherwise you’re going to charge in and get hurt and then there will be two patients on the burn ward instead of just one.
You do realize that despite standing off while using the fire extinguisher three of those first responders were burned, yes? And one of them was treated for smoke inhalation. That’s how hot that fire was - you did not need to get close to get burned or injured. There’s an excellent view of how the authorities reacted, look again (if you can) and note the distance between them and the flames and remember four of them still got hurt. This isn’t Hollywood - fires hurt. Heat extends further than you think it does.
I agree - the filming of the tragedy is creepy (despite the fact we both looked, too). There is something to be said for documenting the event but you can hear a cop saying “that’s not entertainment, put those phones away”. These days everyone and everything building has a camera, it’s a mixed bag at best. But let’s get real - this is hardly the first nasty death caught on film in the past couple decades.
Honestly, a bunch of untrained bystanders rushing in with absolutely nothing to fight the fire is just a recipe for further tragedy. If you can’t save someone then don’t injure yourself and add to the problem.
Link does not work for me. Apparently you h ave to be logged into a Twitter X account to see it.
Yes, he was either holding his breath until the fire was out (doubtful) or he was inhaling flames.
Looked to me like his body was starting to go into the “boxer pose”, where the muscles contract as they are cooked by heat, causing the limbs to flex. You can see it in the bodies left in Pompeii, as another example. It’s a completely involuntary thing.
He was still alive when carted off on a stretcher. Which means his heart was beating and he had some lung function. Doesn’t mean his brain or anything else was intact. He was later reported as intubated on a burn ward.
The gentleman in question is now reported as deceased
I expect that surprised nobody. The human body can chug along briefly after exposure to fire but it’s a collapsing house of cards. If inhaling fire didn’t do him in the extensive burn damage did.
What a tragic end. Such a horrible way to kill yourself. I hope this sort of thing doesn’t become common (remember the pro-Palestinian guy who torched himself outside the Israeli embassy in Washington?)
[Moderating]
“What do the pamphlets say” is a factual question, but it was quickly answered in full. It looks like there’s room for a lot more non-factual discussion beyond that, so I’ll move this over to IMHO.
I would have thought P&E would be a better match, since he was making some sort of political protest, but your shout.
The “political shout” appears to have been unhinged conspiracy theories from an ill mind. The only political aspect was the self-victim choosing a large press event surrounding a political figure, apparently to garner the highest available density of press caneras, and nothing to do with real-world politics at all.
It is an improvement over doing a mass shooting to get attention.
Laura Coates provided Hindenburg level live reporting of this incident. Initially she said there was an active shooter situation, I assume she heard someone else saying that, but the situation became clear in seconds and she reported the horrid details of the event. It doesn’t sound like any bystanders could do anything to help without endangering their own lives. First responders (or someone) were there quickly with a fire extinguisher but I think the guy was already doomed at that point.
I wish it was so, but surveys show that many followers of Trump are followers of many conspiracy theories.
And then Don the Con is not shy on supporting those kind of followers.