Last April I recieved a phone call from a woman. She said she had been searching for me for a couple of years. Said she was the daughter of my grandmothers sister. Now my grandmother knew very little of her parents. She was adopted in 1930 along with four siblings, all going to different homes never to be reunited. We talked for a while and she told me about how long she had been researching this matter and what all she had discovered. Seems there are 36 living descendants. Her big concern over finding all of her long lost relatives? She thought we should know that we are all Jewish. Jewish? I’m not Jewish. “Oh but yes you are.”
So, my grandmother who devoted her entire life to Jesus Christ, never missed a day of church for over 40 years, was Jewish. My mom who loves Jesus and pig pickin’ is Jewish. I am Jewish. Now mind you that it was not some Nazi who decided to research me and tell me that I am Jewish. It was a religious fanatic. After 30 years of just being me, now I have to be Jewish. The woman had the nerve to ask me if I was circumcized.
Jewish religion is obsessed with ancestry. Why in the hell would this woman impose this on me at this age? Why? Was it her duty? Think she feels good about trying to screw with my self identity? Zev tells me that God wrote the Jewish law and that the messiah will make all Jews observant. Where do you guys get off deciding who is a Jew and who isn’t? I thought that was God or Elijahs job.
The bottom line is that your religious beliefs are imposing on me. It is Jewish law and only Jewish law that says I am Jewish. Your rules of descent are offensive. No one has ever asked, implied, or stated that I was a Jew until this Jewish lady came along. Why didn’t all those nasty anti - semites seek me out? You guys say they are the racist villians seeking out Jews for persecusion but guess what? If it weren’t for your stupid laws no one would have ever known that I am Jewish according to the stupid laws. Now this woman has listed my name on her Jewish family tree. WTF??? I have enough to contend with without this crap. Why do you impose your religious criteria on me? Shouldn’t you keep that to yourself?
As for this crap itself, why do you give a rat’s ass? I long ago left the Catholic Church, but the RCC still considers me a Catholic. I don’t tremble in rage at their “imposition.” The Mormons routinely do posthumous baptisms. I’m sure that the “victims,” safe in their Heaven, Happy Hunting Fields, Elysian Fields, Valhalla, etc., just chuckle (no offense to you LDS types; just making a point).
Nothing’s been “imposed” on you. In the eyes of Jews, you’re Jewish. It’s their perspective. In your perspective, you’re something else. Be strong, Sweet Willy - learn to accept your own perspective and not be crippled by the perspectives of others.
I’m not sure you have the inner strength, but try. You’ll sleep better at night.
As for this crap itself, why do you give a rat’s ass? I long ago left the Catholic Church, but the RCC still considers me a Catholic. I don’t tremble in rage at their “imposition.” The Mormons routinely do posthumous baptisms. I’m sure that the “victims,” safe in their Heaven, Happy Hunting Fields, Elysian Fields, Valhalla, etc., just chuckle (no offense to you LDS types; just making a point).
Nothing’s been “imposed” on you. In the eyes of Jews, you’re Jewish. It’s their perspective. In your perspective, you’re something else. Be strong, Sweet Willy - learn to accept your own perspective and not be crippled by the perspectives of others.
I’m not sure you have the inner strength, but try. You’ll sleep better at night.
Willy, you are what you want to be. My ancestors were Irish Catholics, but I’m not, no matter what anyone else may want to believe. While your ancestors were Jewish, and you are ethnically Jewish (if that’s possible–please don’t flame me!!), you are whatever religion you want to be. She can put whatever she wants to on her family tree, and you just keep going to church on Sunday.
Look I have a great interest now in knowing what the hell all this means. I don’t believe in Judaism and I never will. The “I want to be a Jew” thread was about how I would convert. You must understand that I now have been given the wonderful gift of being confused about my status with God. 30 years of not being Jewish and all of a sudden one day I am Jewish. I am still the same person who no way in hell would be accepted as a convert but by the grace of Jewish racism I get to be a Jew. Do you not find it the least bit odd that I can’t be a Jew because I don’t accept the conversion process but now that I find Jewish ancestry “poof” you’re a Jew. That is stupid.
Well I want to just be me. Unfortunately a group of people who ascribe to Jewish religion have determined that I am a Jew. remember what happens to Jews all over the world don’t you? I can claim not to be Jewish all day long and the religious fanatics and anti - semites will still label me a Jew and give me all the sh_t that comes with it.
I’m not even finding myself convinced that the events of the OP actually happened. It’s just a leeetle too convenient that this happens to Sweet Willy, who made such a big deal about this very subject from a non-actual-events point of view in the thread linked above.
Just a thought, but maybe instead of being some religious fanatic who wants to write your name on her Jewish family tree, she’s just someone who just found out that she has cousins after all who she didn’t know about, and she decided to call you to get to know you and tell you something about your family that she thought was important and that you should know.
When my great-grandfather came to the US from somewhere on the Swiss-German border, he left two sisters over there. I don’t know anything about them. I don’t know if they stayed there, or if they moved, if they had kids, if their kids had kids, if they or any other members of my family survived through WWII, or anything. If someone were to call me, my mom, or my grandmother, and say, “I’m your cousin, the kid or grandkid of one of those women who stayed in Europe. Let me tell you about our family.”, personally, I’d be thrilled. I’m sorry you can’t feel the same way.
As for finding out your grandmother was Jewish, what you do with that information is up to you. You’re not obligated to do anything, and since you’re not a religious Jew, it’s irrelevant what Jewish law thinks about your situation. You can ignore the fact that she was Jewish, if you want, and it can have no impact on your life at all. Or, you can take this opportunity to learn about Judaism and a part of your heritage that, until now, you never knew existed. My suggestion, though, is not to consider this a burden or a restriction, but instead an opportunity to learn and grow as a person.
Good. The fewer people who think I am a Jew the better. I would have never revealed this except that I think you guys deserve to know why I am so pissed at Judaism.
My mistake. The phone call in the OP came before the thread in question. So I can believe it happened, possibly. I was thinking that this just happened within the last few days, having missed the “last April” thing.
Doesn’t make the arguments and attitudes any less disgusting, but…
OK, since I’m at least partly to blame for this thread being here (I told him to open a new thread and not hijack the one we were hijacking), I’ll entertain our “guest.”
So, what exactly is your problem Sweet Willy?
Is it that Jewish law determines who’s Jewish? Well, too bad. Just like the U.S. gets to determine who’s a U.S. citizen, and the Roman Catholic Church gets to determine who’s Catholic and the New York Yankees get to determine who’s a Yankee, the Jews get to determine who’s Jewish.
Is it that someone intruded on your life and upset your self-identity? My apologies that someone bothered you. But that has nothing to do with Jewish law. The person would probably have told you your religious/ethnic background no matter what it was.
Is that you are now worried about your status in the afterlife? I doubt it. You’ve stated numerous times you don’t care about religion.
Is it that you just find Judaism offensive in general whether and would have whether or not the above-mentioned story happened to you? No comment here.
Robb , I have had thirty years to figure out who I am and what I believe about the here after. Now someone comes along and tells me I am of Jewish descent. Doesn’t mean that much to me on the surface. It does mean something to lote of others though. My descent affects the way Jews and Gentiles think of me. In an instant peoples thoughts about me change because of the blood in my viens. The debate is about whether or not people should impose this type of thing on other unsuspecting people. Would you just go skipping merrily along if someone called you up and said :“hey, you’re Jewish. Bet you didn’t know that.” No I didn’t and you just blew my mind. Thanks for the strife.
My reply has a comment or two that I feel will not appropriately fit withiin the bounds of this forum, so if you will please, Sweet Willy, step in here.
My bad. I missed the part where you informed us that she tattooed this on your forehead, thus allowing the rest of us to know your religion and adjust our views accordingly.
Zev I can’t believe that you of all people don’t understand why I have a problem with this. All of the discussion about how Jews are treated so poorly and how the anti - semites are after us and how it doesn’t matter if you believe in Judaism or not and how the messiah is coming to make me observant and how you don’t recognize me as anything but Jewish because your law says I can’t be anything else. It was not my lost cousin who made the rules. They are the rules of Judaism. Without the proselytizing of that crap I would still be just plain old me. Adoptions are sealed for good reason.