Does this sound like trolling to anyone else?
Well, I hope your not accusing me of trolling. Look at my posting history over the past three years, I generally stay in General Questions and Cafe Society. The “Gay Teens: a debate” thread was my only foray into voicing my opinion on these kind of issues. I’m just saying I think I understand why His4Ever and JerseyDiamond tend to instantly appear in any thread on gay issues.
UnuMondo
So you’re accusing them of trolling?
Well, I guess, although I don’t disagree with what they’re doing if this is indeed the case. Anyway, this is the Pit, so accusations of trolling belong here, right?
UnuMondo
IIRC, they belong in the email inboxes of the moderators and/or admins.
But hey, anything to disrupt a thread if that thread might save the life of a fucking homo or some fucking “I want it both ways” bisexual abomination, right?
I have neither the ambition nor the inclination to quote the FAQ about discussions of whether other members are trolling.
But in defense of Joe, Jersey, and His, it appears to me that they are motivated by (a) a conviction that the teachings of the Bible as they understand them are 100% true regarding the sinfulness of homosexual acts, and probably of “coddling” a homosexual orientation as well, based on Romans 1, and (b) a sincere desire to present these teachings to warn the people tempted to such sins, for their own spiritual good. In short, it’s done out of love – IMHO, misguidedly, but nonetheless sincerely felt and meant.
In addition, there’s a mindset among many conservative Christians, though I will not attribute it to those three without more evidence than I have regarding their own personal views on it, that there is in fact a campaign by gay activists to corrupt America and the world, and that this needs to be combatted in the name of God. This press-release-disguised-as-news-story pretty well exemplifies that line of thought.
But, and this is key to me, while we continue to play this game of “you don’t understand what I’m saying” back and forth, the result is incidents like the one most of us believe to have happened in Daryl’s case, and Matthew Shepard and the entire list of other hate-crime deaths above. And that’s something that neither side sees as right.
In public, anyway. I’m not calling any one person, in electronico or in the real world, but I tend to be less than convinced of the “we think homosexuality is evil but don’t advocate violence or discrimination” protestations that crop up all the time from the Religious Right. The obstinate refusal to see that constantly harping on how homosexuals are “against nature” and “abominations” and commit “disgusting acts” which “reduce men to the animals” is likely to lead to violence by those listening seems more than a little disingenuous to me.
Yeah, jayjay, me too. But I think that (1) a fair proportion of conservative Christians do give serious effort to doing both halves of the “love the sinner, hate the sin” paradigm – my classic example of this is Rob~ (-lynn, from the Parlor), whom you may remember, and I think you;d see Joe Cool identifying himself as being in this group; and (2) a lot of the Religious Right find homosexuality disgusting and gay activists out to corrupt the national morals, but nonetheless are opposed to violence against anybody – and don’t see a connection between their denouncing of homosexuality/homosexuals and hate crimes against them.
However, sir, my point is that pointing fingers and calling names is not going to save the kids that are killing themselves; bringing across, on a one to one basis, what impact the actions of others have on people’s hearts and spirits will. And that’s not an easy job, and it’s only made harder by mutual demonization.
Gods, I wish it seemed more possible at the moment after reading this thread.
“A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” “Every drop of water has its part in filling the sea.” And other platitudes with real meaning behind them.
You know how many of us there are standing behind you, Matt. You know what the job is, and even how to get there. It’s long and tedious, but you have something going for you that Leonardo and Oscar and Harry Hay and Larry Kramer didn’t – there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It’s doable.
Characteristically mild chastisement noted and acknowledged, Poly. It’s just that living a war, even a cultural/social/legal one, wears down one’s optimism and Anne-Frank-like “there’s good in all people” outlook very quickly.
There are an awful lot of us who are casualties of this little struggle, even if we bear no physical scars.
You repeatedly bring up that example. But when I was a regular poster over there, I didn’t feel the same way. Rob~ may not have been as directly hostile as some of the others, but I felt no more welcomed nor loved by him.
No matter how much syrup you drizzle over it, “abomination” and “hate the sin” does not come across as sweetness.
Sorry, **Homebrew, ** I’ll change my idea of what love is and my religious beliefs in order to not contradict your misunderstanding of opposition to homosexuality. Sorry fundamentalist posters dared to have their own beliefs which they think based on love, I’ll make sure that won’t happen again. :rolleyes:
UnuMondo
And I care what you think, why? I was addressing someone who actually cares and is respected.
Unu, my experience is that it’s necessary not only to say the word but to show it, to live it, for it to have any real impact. Doesn’t mean you need to “water down” or “cover up” but it does mean that you need to show caring and respect in expressing your disagreement. And I’ll grant that’s very tough to do.
Homebrew, I do take your point. But I saw him as trying awfully hard, and in particular in speaking of his gay friend, the love that he bore for him shone through. YMMV, of course.
I wish you two would stop back in over there and join in discussions. CJ’s asked about why conservative Christians target homosexuality as opposed to other sins for especial condemnation; the discussion could benefit from your perspectives (and perhaps gobear’s, too, though I’m not sure he ever looked in on the Parlor).