Joe, the compassion you have poured forth in this thread is the same compassion (IMHO) His4ever evinced in the other thread. The only real difference is that she expressed remorse for the death of andy’s friend. You’re just expressing doubt at the actual event.
Did you and UnoMondo go to the same finishing school?
And then the selfish actions of his parents, who refused to accept him … um … ? That he was hurt badly enough by his parents to even conceive of the option, let alone carry it out to fruition, means … um … ?
Seems to me like you’re missing a few sides of this.
[sub]No problem re: misreading. Happens:)[/sub]
Here we go again. I have first hand experience of attempted suicide, both in high school, and as an adult. Also, I know other people who have attempted suicide and run an on-line support group for people who suffer from clinical depression.
Joe Cool, while there is room for variation between people, despite appearances to the contrary, as a rule, a person who attempts or commits suicide does not intend it to be a selfish act. Speaking directly from my own experience now, when I have been suicidal, I have been out of touch with reality in that my world consisted of nothing but pain, and I could see no end to that pain. As a teenager who not accepted at home or at school, I could not see a time and place where I would ever be accepted, wanted, or loved. I won’t deny that there was an element of anger, of “I’ll show them!” but that alone has not been sufficient for me. In recent months, when I have been close to suicidal, I have prayed to God, “Please, make it stop. I am not strong enough.” I know suicide appears selfish, and my heart goes out to those who have loved those who have committed it. It’s just in this case, the appearance may well not match the reality.
Also, when I was a teenager, my parents didn’t know about my suicide attempts until I rather foolishly confessed to one in a Social Studies class. Even then, they knew far less about the cause than my few friends did because I didn’t tell them. I already believed (falsely) that they didn’t love me and couldn’t accept me for who I was, and that I would never be good enough for them. They also did not believe in psychiatry. They do now, to some extent, and I think they’ve got a reasonable handle on some of what I’ve been going through recently, but I’m still pretty sure they don’t know what was going on in high school, and I’d prefer to keep it that way because the knowledge would only hurt them. For what it’s worth, it falls under the category of “Honor thy father and mother.”
This is intended to educate, not criticize. Like I said, I’ve got the privilege:rolleyes: of having first hand knowledge of depression and suicide. On the whole, I’d really have preferred to do without that, but it does have its uses.
Respectfully,
CJ
He reported to andygirl his stated reasons to want to die.
she’s reporting them to us. At worst, it’s ‘heresay’ (which is admissible in courts of law under certain circumstances, naturally, this isn’t a court of law).
I’m not talking about what the parents allegedly said to their deceased child. I’m talking about asking andygirl for a cite to prove what her dead friend said to her. which, again is the same damn thing as some one here asking you and JD to prove that stuff about her prior marriage.
So, once again, I’m wondering why the same sort of thing that was so totally unacceptable to you when directed in your direction is defended here when the object is a dead gay teen.
And punha (may I call you punha?), I’m not expressing any doubt. I’m expressing disgust at the way the parents are assumed to be at fault, based on andygirl’s report of the claims of a depressed and suicidal teenager.
Naturally, the fact that he was a GAY depressed and suicidal teenager gives special veracity to his words, that the words of an ordinary ( :rolleyes: ) depressed and suicidal teenager wouldn’t get.
And keep in mind that we’re talking about a third hand (and IMO, questionable, given his state of mind) claim that his parents refused to accept him, not factual knowledge.
Besides, my own parents “didn’t accept me” and kicked me out of the house when I was a teenager, and I made my own way for a year, living in motels and such. I didn’t commit suicide, and the incident blew over, as such things do.
I think it’s sad that he died, but I hold to my belief that suicide (no matter who you are) is the cowardly answer to almost any given situation, and among the worst of all possible responses. You cannot blame the parents for his death.
Did it ever occur to you that people commit suicide because they are crushed benath an emotional burden they cannot bear? No, to you, suicide is just a selfish lark.
I have been in Daryl’s shoes. I hated myself when I was ateen because people like YOU told me I was unfit to live because I was gay.
Go fuck yourself, you evil compassionless motherfucker.
Depression is by it’s very nature selfish, because you’re in such a state that you cannot be otherwise. You’re so sucked downward that you cannot see anything else but an end to the pain.
I understand that. And I doubt the factuality of his report.
And again, please show me where I asked andygirl for a cite on anything. At that time, I’ll respond to your claim.
Oh, lookie. Once again, Joe climbs up on the cross. Martyr complexes are so second century.
If you acted towards them how you act around here, it’s no wonder.
Can I have a cite please? Where did he say you were unfit to live, or are you just making things up?
I didn’t think so. Stop making things up, would you?!
Yeah, logic, reason, and fairness for the accused are just intolerable. :rolleyes:
Joe, you can call me pretty much anything except late for dinner:)
Anyway, here is one instance of the doubt I saw in your post:
“How much weight can you put in the 3rd hand account[sup]1[/sup] of a horrible life from counselling sessions with somebody who is obviously suffering from some sort of mental disorder[sup]2[/sup], and is so unable to cope with the real world that he killed himself[sup]3[/sup]?”
Did you mean to express something else? Because here’s what I see in that post:
Doubt in the actuality of the event.
Some sort of implication that someone who is suffering from a mental disorder is not meant to be taken as seriously as someone who is not.
A) It’s the real world; he should expect that his parents won’t accept him and he should just deal with it. B) He’s too weak for that, so he just kills himself because he sees no other option.
This does not paint you in the most sympathetic light.
Am I missing where someone said that his being gay somehow made his words more credible?
What wring said. As we’ve been told by andy, it isn’t third-hand. Firsthand was Daryl. Second was Andy. Thirdhand would be me reading this thread and telling you (until you read the thread, at which point you would have both thirdhand and secondhand knowledge).
And I hold to my belief that it is a personal issue and you cannot possibly claim to know, beyond the “because of his life situation”, what the mental train of thought he had was.
Please don’t tell me what I can’t do:) I am fully capable of blaming his parents for his death, and I do. You may personally feel that you cannot blame his parents, but yours is not the final word on who can blame whom.
how on earth can you doubt his stated reasons for committing suicide??
you may doubt that the kid was accurately reporting what the parents said and did, but are you really claiming that he lied about why he was suicidal??
you did not use the word “cite”; however everything you’ve posted has called into question the veracity of the kids’s reporting, and andygirls reporting of what she was told.
.
Reason, logic and fairness?
You of all people ask me about that?
he said “people like you”.
so he wasn’t making a personal accusation, nor making things up. or were you making it up that he claimed that Joe said he was unfit to live?
ok, so let me get this straight:
If J_C commits suicide tonite because he couldn’t bear the emotional burden of being called, “evil compassionless motherfucker” by gobear, gobear is then responsible for his death, right? :rolleyes:
Or wait, is it different?
He bolded YOU, no?
capitalized, sorry. That lead me to believe that he meant YOU, as in Joe Cool. Call me crazy.
I think it should have been "assholes like you"
And just look at how you turned out. Living proof that parents should never turn their backs on their children.