In which I pit my niece's mother (long)

The BBQ Pit
1

(Inspired by the Savage/Autism thread) Basically, my niece is only 4 months younger than my daughter Anya; almost 3 years old. She is the polar opposite; in fact, I don’t even think you could even compare her to a 2-year-old Anya.

She does not talk. Period. Unless you count pointing and “dee-dee-dee-dee” at whatever she wants, and screams when you pick the wrong thing or are not fast enough.

She doesn’t have an attention span and an explosive temper. By that, I don’t mean she’s a three-year-old who gets bored with something after a few minutes. With my niece, we’re talking about a few seconds. At Anya’s birthday party, she could not be in the craft room, as she just wanted to run around and take other kids’ supplies. The instructor had to ask them to leave after multiple fits. When she comes over to our house, she quickly empties Anya’s toybox before looking for something else. If she doesn’t get access to that next thing, she has a fit.

She is extremely possessive. She has her crayons, and then has a screaming fit because she needs Anya’s crayons, too.

She is continually snotty, as in she has a layer of crust on her face. Fine, kids have runny noses, but her parents never bother to wipe her. And unfair or not, parents do not like to see a snotty kid playing with their children and rummaging through their children’s toys. So, this limits the family & friend functions we invite them to… which affects her socialization.

Nature or nurture?

Her mother said she was diagnosed with mild autism… but then inexplicably told us the next day that the tests were negative. They bought her a bunch of gluten-free food on the doctor’s orders, but they don’t make her eat it (“we can’t force her to”), and then still gives her regular cereal and pasta.

My niece has a playroom upstairs; a room totally devoted to toys with a DVD player on continual loops of Spongebob. The TV, computer, etc, are all downstairs; and guess where the mother spends most of their time? Everytime we’ve come over, my niece is upstairs, often behind a stair-guard gate. It was like this in the last place they lived, too.

How do they react when she has a fit? They jerk the toy away from her and scream “No Olivia No!”. Then she cries, and the mom rolls her eyes and sighs with a “Woe is me” look. So her father tries to pick her up by one arm without comforting her, which makes for a wonderful scene.

We try to give advice, but they quickly answer “that doesn’t work with her”. Reverse psychology, distracting her, reading to her… Nope, can’t do it with Olivia.

So, have the sought help? Yes, and it was difficult. As in difficult for us to get them to do it; we badger them constantly. She says she’s too busy to go to a therapist (she’s a stay at home Mom), and waits for Easter Seals to come by the house. She doesn’t do any follow-up if they don’t come by. She exaggerates (or would it be “lies”) to the therapist by saying “she’s getting better” and “she’s talking more now”, which misleads the person trying to help.

So, we recommended she see Anya’s (very good) doctor. She first complained it was out of network and didn’t want to pay the $10 copay (military network has no copay). I guess I understand, it’s tough to be an single-income E-5 and afford an iPhone, 2 laptops with broadband, 60" DLP TV with digital cable, Blu-ray player, Xbox 360, and a DVD-laden minivan. We offered to give them money and then worked things out with the doctor. Yet she still managed to mess that up! She went into some rant about vaccinations causing autism for their other baby Zachary, and our doctor just got a bad vibe and didn’t want to deal with them. She didn’t get around to mentioning Olivia’s problems, the raison d’etre for us arranging this.

Right now, she is waiting to hear from a special school that she’s applied to in April after finally seeing a social worker. It’s supposed to start in July, and she’s literally taking a “wait and see” approach: “No, they haven’t called yet.” We asked her what she’s doing in the meantime with her development, but the answer is usually some variation of “we’re waiting for the school to help her”.

We asked her just last weekend about it, and she has not got news from the school yet. She admitted she turned in the paperwork late, “because things have been so hectic”. Again, recall she is a stay-at-home mom.

I don’t want to make it seem like I’m just blaming teh mother, but they have the incredible luxury (in Hawaii) of having a stay-at-home Mommy. My brother was also raised better than this and he needs to do a better job with his kids. It depresses me, since Olivia is still my niece, especially seeing what a good girl Anya is. They are missing out on so much (you couldn’t take Olivia to Waikiki, much less NYC).

Being a parent, I’ve toned down my past conservative rhetoric. I no longer believe everyone is able to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” or “be a man and take care of it”. I do accept that people can be overwhelmed by their situations, even if they caused said situation. Sometimes you can’t simply say “you reap what you’ve sown”, without giving some help.

But I find it difficult to sympathize for those who ignore help, not through ignorance, but through lazy indifference.

I don’t see much realistic hope, with two more babies in the family. Yep, she’s pregnant again.

2

Have both Olivia and Zachary been diagnosed with autism? Is your SIL just unwilling to accept that diagnoses for Olivia?

I feel sorry for all concerned, however less sorry for your SIL, who seems to be acting as if she ignores the problem it will go away. What does you brother think of the situation? Can you get him to take Olivia to another doctor, or call the new school?

3

I’m not surprised that she’s unwilling to accept it. There’s a woman here whose kid is at the very least Asbergers, but says that he’s fine, just on “the low end of the spectrum” When the Sheckstress had him in her class, she came home on the first day and asked if he’d been in for autism testing. We’ve tried to give subtle and not so subtle hints, but no… her son is fine. He’s just really slow. The fact that he FREAKS at any break in routine (he freaked when his mother put on her bra because he doesn’t, so now she has to put it on in the car on the way to work from the day care) has been no indicator. The younger child? Perfectly normal other than that she’s 15 months and hasn’t walked yet. Mentally, she’s developing normally.

And, not for nothing, but women that marry military are by-and-large not right anyway. I’m not saying ALL military wives, but a clear majority.

4

Wow, THAT’s a tactless response.

5

Has your sister-in-law been evaluated for depression? Because a lot of what you’re saying about her sounds like it could indicate that. Not that that excuses anything, but if that is an underlying issue, addressing that would help with all the other stuff.

And I’m a little confused as to where your brother is in all this.

6

Super Nanny show?

They really train the parents how to behave and not so much the kids.

7

I’m confused. Why is she putting it on in front of him anyway? She doesn’t get dressed in a separate room?

8

Not my kid, not my wife, so I didn’t want to get into it.

9

She says she’s been diagnosed as bi-polar, but I always thought it was a self-diagnosis to garner sympathy/attention. “I’m sorry I acted this way, but I was bi-polar/severe depression” kind of thing. She’s not really one to take responsibility for her actions or outcomes. For instance, when we make the comparisons to our daughter, Steph waves it away “Well, you have an easy daughter to raise, we do not.” :smack:

My brother does need to get involved more with his children. I used to give him a pass since he was working full-time while she was a stay-at-home Mommy. When we ask him for updates on his children, he always refers to his wife: “she’s taking care of that.” Perhaps I am incorrect in thinking she bears more responsibility since she’s with her children more.

Not to hijack, to a small extent, I agree with Shecky about military wives. Not all (my Mom was one), but there is a strange culture among enlisted wives. I think part of it is the free housing where it’s almost “instant middle class” with one family member needing to work. It causes families to make decisions they normally wouldn’t. 60" DLP vs paying a $10 copay while considering WIC as a “benefit”.

10

First thing: my mom was a military wife. She’s also the first person I heard “most military wives aren’t right in the head” from. I think she had a roommate when dad was on tour in Vietnam who literally threw herself down the stairs and through a window so that they’d have to send her husband home–from his job as an aircraft tech on a WWII-vintage anti-submarine carrier.

As for the family in question…Not much to say. It makes me feel awful when I see people who can’t be bothered to help their kids out, especially when I have friends in my parent’s hometown with the opposite problem–they have a eight year old with severe autism who they can’t get good help for because they’re 2-3hours from the nearest big cities and no one in west-central PA seems to have any idea of how to help them, they can’t get any local support, etc.

11

It sounds like the parents aren’t doing much for the kids–though I’m also hesitant to get worked up about a three-year-old not being verbal. I mean, there are great kids who are speaking in complete sentences at two, but there are also a lot of kids who can’t string words together until they go to kindergarten. They come out more or less okay.

12

My daughter did not talk until the age of 3, she also had no attention span. We got her help away. She was diagnosed with ADHD, and in her case there is no doubt. She is now 17 and as hyper as ever. But she excels at school with the right medication. She still has a slight speech impediment. But because we got her help by the age of three she is a bright well adjusted child. Without the right intervention I do not think she would be looking at going to College, I think she would be a frustrated drop-out.

13

And what the *hell * is that supposed to mean? :dubious:

ivylass, married to Ivylad, former sonar tech on a US Navy submarine.

14

This. (My mom was also a military wife and managed to avoid most of the nuttiness.) I was going to share some stories but then I realized that I have too many to choose from.

As to the OP, does your SIL have post-partum depression? Just wondering - my best girl friend has a 3 year old autistic son as well as a colicky 6 month old baby and she has a bit of trouble keeping up with stuff too. Her husband is no help, whatsoever, but based on what you’ve said in this thread it doesn’t sound like your bro is helping out much.

As to you having an easy child and your SIL having a hard child - she may have a point. Speaking as a non parent, I have to say that both my niece and nephew (who are 9 and 5) were much easier children to deal with than my friend’s autistic 3 year old. Leaps and bounds difference, and I think my friend is pretty competent as a mom.

15

Speaking as a military brat:

That’s part of it, sure. I think a bigger part is sort of like my friend’s son.

See, he’s seventeen. Turns eighteen in a few months. Kid’s desperately seeking direction, dropped out but got his GED, and at last he decided the best thing to do would be to join the Army. Probably a good plan. He’s married his girlfriend from high school, too, because they love each other and he gets a much better housing allowance if he has a wife.

So imagine, if you will. You just got married. You’re seventeen or eighteen. Your husband (who, presumably, you love) goes off for a few months to boot camp, possibly a while longer – even a good while longer – to school. Maybe you’re pregnant. Maybe you already have a child. You’re still effectively a single parent and barely old enough to be considered an adult. You’ve never lived anywhere but with your parents, you have never built a budget, all the money seems to disappear as soon as it arrives (who knew that a thousand dollars really isn’t that much?), and you’re still growing into your adult self. So’s your husband. Will you two be growing closer together or further apart? Can you do anything about it if you become incompatible?

And Lord help you if you become an officer’s wife. It’s not too bad if you like being Donna Reed, but if you don’t like being a professional hostess (or heck, even if you don’t get along with the Colonel’s wife) you are not going to have fun. It’s really having another job: you have huge responsibilities beyond just supporting your husband and taking care of your kids.

16

Humm - I don’t know about this - my mom had a successful career of her own and still managed to support my dad. She WAS the Colonel’s wife, mind you, so maybe she didn’t give a shit what the other wives thought - dunno.

17

There is a lot of nurture but also some significant nature involved in a child’s character/behaviour.

Your description of your good girl Anya (kudos on having a happy, well-adjusted 2-year-old) reminds me of my sister D who gave advice and criticized other siblings for the way they brought up their children. She had a perfect son Alex… but then JC came along and that boy made her eat her words…

18

I get that, and I don’t try to get on my high horse about my daughter (sharing pictures, that’s another story !).

When I make the inevitable comparisons to Anya, my Mom used to tell me that “all kids are different”. She says that brother and I developed at different speeds with different personalities, so it’s not always due to parenting. I do realize there is some luck involved, and if I get a second child, I’m sure I’ll have some words to eat. However, I’d still like to believe we had something to do with it:

Child A have parents who read to her, play with her, and take her to places and events. They interact and include her in many activities, from music classes to playgroups to museums. Child A’s parents have worked on getting her to talk and be sociable, and discipline her when necessary.

Child B gets locked in a playroom with overflowing toyboxes and DVDs for interaction. Her parents do not read to her. They have never signed her up for any activities or playgroups. While they acknowledge she may need help, they make no efforts to get it.

Which one would you guess becomes Anya and which one becomes Olivia?

19

Not sure about the depression. She has not been a reliable narrator in the past, and I wonder if her depression is self-diagnosed. “Sorry I acted that way, but I’ve been diagnosed with depression, bi-polar, etc. (so, it’s okay, can I go now?)” If Steph says the doctor said Olivia’s autism was negative, then it does put more blame on their parenting style. Granted, she may have been lying about the negative autism, in which she still could’ve gotten help.

I wouldn’t necessarily call Anya an easy child. It’s more difficult to read to a child every night, take her to school, sign her up for activities, take her places, and set aside time each day to play with her. Never mind trying to keep her attention while potty-training or disciplining her. It would be easier to sit in front of the TV or computer while she’s locked in her playroom upstairs watching Spongebob.

I know people’s children have overcome a lot, like speaking later or having autism. But in the examples above, the posters have taken a more active role in getting the help or treatment (with happy results, like Qwisp). Olivia’s parents have not, either through laziness (the special school) or sabotage (my doctor, IMHO).

20

I’m still on the putting the bra in the car bit–I cannot think of a more awkward thing to do than to try to put a bra on in a car–and isn’t she the driver? The mind boggles–not only at the visual, but also the complete lack of any problem solving skills evidenced. :confused:

RE the OP and his niece. If the parents won’t listen to you, you have two paths ahead of you: one is to try to earn their trust, which may not only be difficult, but also puts you in the awkward position of having to witness poor parenting repeatedly OR you bite your tongue and wait and hope that the pre school screenings catch some of this stuff. At Olivia’s age, she should be at the pediatrician’s office fairly frequently–if she is as extreme as you say, it will be picked up and referrals made. I would hope that if the referrals are not followed through by her parents that something else would happen (legally), but I doubt it. The child sounds miserable, btw. :frowning: