In Which Shodan (Allegedly) Pits a Predator

[wring]

@Shodan

Well, he’s forty-two now, and he must have been convicted as an adult.

where do you get that?

It was fifth degree sexual assault, IIRC. Which (IANAL) sounds more like groping, or perhaps fondling a minor, and less like taking an outdoor whiz.

? again, please link to statute. in my state 4th degree Criminal Sexual Conduct is the groping thing, but definately not of a child. which can mean back to the boorish bar behavior, which I agree is not to be condoned, but fuck - I saw enough of that back in my youth that unless half the men I knew in college are now on sex offender registry lists, means it’s not particularly accurate predictor of future serious misconduct.

Well, not automatically, But that seems to be how it worked out in this case.

once again, actually alledgedly - there were 2 local cases of teacher/school officials who were accused, one was found not guilty after trial (where the jury foreman made a public statement saying “these charges should never even have been brought against this person”) the other never made it to trial - 'cause after the press conference some one got the bright idea to investigate the claim, and found that the email supposedly sent by the teacher had in fact been sent by a friend of the accusor under a fake account (one would have thought that they’d have checked something as simple as an ISP before hand?), and the accusor was then charged w/perjury, shortly before the accused died.

and of course, due to the general histroncis surrounding these offenses (global positioners? even when there’s say nearly 40,000 of them in Michigan alone? ), I don’t have a problem with having a single conviction set aside depending on the circumstances.

[Jackmannii]

@wring

…global positioners? even when there’s say nearly 40,000 of them in Michigan alone?

Yeah, global positioners are just about the worst kind of sex perverts. No way they should be anywhere near our schools.

I just read about another kind of offender, mentioned in a hospital medical exam dictation. The patient was described as “a limited community ambulator.”
Nasty.

[wring]

@Jackmannii

Yeah, global positioners are just about the worst kind of sex perverts. No way they should be anywhere near our schools.

I hear some of 'em even operate in cars :eek:

[Denis]

Please dispell a bit of my admittedly rather large alleged ignorance.

WTF is a “global positioner?”

Allegedly,

Denis

[wring]

@Denis

Please dispell a bit of my admittedly rather large alleged ignorance.

WTF is a “global positioner?”

Allegedly,

Denis

a device that when active, will pinpoint (to some degree) the location of the device. Very handy in cars if it gets stolen, and theres folks that believe that if you have such devices on all RSO,s that it may increase public safety.

[Zoe]

Just as hate crimes are considered worse than other crimes, I think that teachers and other school staff who abuse their positions by molesting students should serve really hard time and a long sentence.

[wring]

@Zoe

Just as hate crimes are considered worse than other crimes, I think that teachers and other school staff who abuse their positions by molesting students should serve really hard time and a long sentence.

at least in my jursidiction, if there is (essentially) a “relationship of trust” in some manner, the degree of the crime is enhanced and therefore the amount of the sentence. I believe that’s pretty routine across the country.

[Denis]

Thanks, wring. I knew what the tech global positioner (GPS), was, is, allegedly. Just didn’t make the connection between it and convicted pervs.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Shodan

Actually, I read in the news this morning that one state (I disremember which one) jacked the age for marriage all the way up to 15.

It might be interesting to know how they arrived at that figure.

Regards,
Shodan

That would be Kansas, explanation in the article. threemae, it wasn’t Oklahoma, it was Nebraska that they came from.

[threemae]

Well damnit, there I go again, spouting off and slandering Oklahoma when really I was hoping to damage the reputation of the fine state of Nebraska.

[Garfield226]

@Shodan

It is also alleged that this is not his first sexual offense - he was allegedly convicted of fifth degree sexual assault, but his record was allegedly expunged for reasons that are not clear.

After several semesters of working on the city desk of my school’s newspaper, writing about “alleged” murderers and “alleged” rapists and the like, one of the reporters was recently happy to learn the criminal in one of the trials she has been covering was convicted of murder. In her very next story, she could (and did) say things like “after he murdered the student,” and “the killer,” with impunity.

[RTFirefly]

@Garfield226

After several semesters of working on the city desk of my school’s newspaper, writing about “alleged” murderers and “alleged” rapists and the like, one of the reporters was recently happy to learn the criminal in one of the trials she has been covering was convicted of murder. In her very next story, she could (and did) say things like “after he murdered the student,” and “the killer,” with impunity.

IANAL, but my understanding is that there’s a point much earlier in the proceedings when many (though not all) of the ‘allegeds’ can be dispensed with. If I remember correctly, in preparation for trial, prosecution and defense produce a list of facts they both agree happened and are not in dispute. At which point they’re no longer allegations, but facts, from a legal perspective. And presumably a reportorial perspective as well.

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

@JohnBckWLD

I was going recommend you look it up - but that could invite allegations of smugness on my part. I’ll try to contain my smarmy tone to this specific thread and offer you an educatation at the same time. Salutor is allegedly Latin for visitor. I say allegedly because I’m not Catholic - and don’t speak the language. I’ll occasionally pepper my posts with words googled in a Latin dictionary because I’ve heard it alleged it provides them an air of sacrosanctity not often found on the SDMB.

Wow. Either I’m being whooshed or you’re a gigantic asshole.

[Monty]

Is there any chance, any chance whatsoever, that in threads regarding this particular subject matter, folks can refrain from delighting in the concept of prison rape?

[DrDeth]

@Helen's Eidolon

Wow. Either I’m being whooshed or you’re a gigantic asshole.

Close; even if you’re being whooshed he’s a gigantic asshole.

[Shodan]

@wring

where do you get that?

Because the newspaper article spoke of a conviction, which I don’t think happens in the juvenile justice system, and records are “sealed” in toto rather than having individual crimes expunged.

? again, please link to statute.

Actually, that was just off the top of my head, but it doesn’t seem too far off - [

609.3451 Criminal sexual conduct in the fifth degree.

Subdivision 1.    Crime defined.  A person is guilty of 

criminal sexual conduct in the fifth degree:

(1) if the person engages in nonconsensual sexual contact; 

or

(2) the person engages in masturbation or lewd exhibition 

of the genitals in the presence of a minor under the age of 16,
knowing or having reason to know the minor is present.

](http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/609/3451.html)

I don’t have a problem with having a single conviction set aside depending on the circumstances.

I do in this case.

@Monty

Is there any chance, any chance whatsoever, that in threads regarding this particular subject matter, folks can refrain from delighting in the concept of prison rape?

I kind of doubt it. The urge for poetic justice tends to outweigh the more mature impulse towards real justice.

Besides, this is my little girl here. Nothing is too good for her, and nothing is too bad for anyone who even looks at her the wrong way.

And there ain’t no “allegedly” about that.

Regards,
Shodan

[wring]

IME, your wrong about your assumption that it must have been an adult conviction. YEs, some juvenile records are sealed, but not all, IME.

It also seems your also wrong about your assumption about the acts involved - first of all the first explanation is exactly one of the things I speculated about - the groping type of behavior that has happened at bars, restaurants, parties etc, Doesn’t make it ok, but it certainly doesn’t rise, IME, IMHO, to the level of concern that currently happens. and again, unless a substantial portion of the men my age have engaged in lewd acts w/children, then I’d suggest that it is not the dire predictor that you think it is.

Let me again state: does not mean that I think such behavior is acceptable. It does, however, mean that to lump such behavior into the category of “folks we need to be concerned about for the rest of their lives, track w/global positioners, require live x number of feet away from various things, be identified on web site, will become sexually attracted to children and act on those feelings” No, shoudln’t happen.

Christ - some asshole reporter for one of the entertainment ‘news’ shows did exactly that on camera to a couple of stars (Scarlett Johansen IIRC was one), groped her boobs on TV. So did Diana Ross (to Lil Kim IIRC). it’s not stupid, offensive behavior, there should be consequences for same, but to lump that type of shit in w/some one who truly has harmed a child minimizes the crime that occurs to the child, wastes resources on stupid folks instead of dangerous folks.

[wring]

@wring

it’s not stupid, offensive behavior, .

:smack: make that “it is stupid, offensive behavior” hopefully that was clear.

[Moirai]

@wring

Christ - some asshole reporter for one of the entertainment ‘news’ shows did exactly that on camera to a couple of stars (Scarlett Johansen IIRC was one), groped her boobs on TV.

It was fashion designer Isaac Mizrahi. Noted homosexual, and exclusively available at Target.

I know I shouldn’t be laughing in this thread, but “global positioners” cracked me up.

Rant all you want, Shodan, and I mean all of it- prison rape, hang 'em high, who needs a trial, etc. Get it out of your system so that your cooler head will prevail IRL.

Your daughter needs her Daddy, and that will never change, so some of the choices you make for her sake may go against everything you think it is your duty to do. Get my point?

You’re a good dad. Keep an eye on this case, be supportive to your daughter and her friends.

[Shodan]

@wring

IME, your wrong about your assumption that it must have been an adult conviction. YEs, some juvenile records are sealed, but not all, IME.

You are missing the point, which is that he was convicted, not whatever legal phrase applies to the findings of a juvenile court, and his record was not sealed, one conviction was expunged. Neither would have happened, IOW, unless he was tried and convicted as an adult.

It also seems your also wrong about your assumption about the acts involved - first of all the first explanation is exactly one of the things I speculated about - the groping type of behavior that has happened at bars, restaurants, parties etc,

No, you were focusing on phone sex lines and an eighteen year old and his sixteen year old girl friend, which does not seem to be the case. And, if you had read the cite, you would have noticed that groping someone’s ass is specifically excluded from the definition.

I’d suggest that it is not the dire predictor that you think it is.

Well, as I have mentioned a couple of times, in this case, it was a dire predictor, since the son-of-a-bitch got a job working in a school and then molested two more children.

Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

there should be consequences for same, but to lump that type of shit in w/some one who truly has harmed a child minimizes the crime that occurs to the child, wastes resources on stupid folks instead of dangerous folks.

To repeat, since you missed the point, I am not the one who is doing the lumping. And this is a person who has harmed two children. And arresting him is not wasting resources, since he is not merely stupid, but dangerous.

I get the feeling that you are being argumentative merely for its own sake. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, in the sense of “boogie off, you’re harshing my rant”.

@EJsGirl

Rant all you want, Shodan, and I mean all of it- prison rape, hang 'em high, who needs a trial, etc. Get it out of your system so that your cooler head will prevail IRL.

Your daughter needs her Daddy, and that will never change, so some of the choices you make for her sake may go against everything you think it is your duty to do. Get my point?

You’re a good dad. Keep an eye on this case, be supportive to your daughter and her friends.

Well, I have spoken with She Who Channels the Fashion Gods, and she recognizes the unworthy, but has had no contact with him beyond an attempt to recruit her for the diversity group. She had no interest, he never did anything to make her feel creepy, and accordingly, it may be necessary to allow him to live.

But thanks for the comments, very much.

Regards,
Shodan